Cryoakira said:
storytelling in games isen't anything like movies or books. In fact, I believe great movies stories will be very weak in games context, simply because many tools used by scenarist are lost in games. VG storytellers must answer to very different constraints. The player control the pace of the game, not only when he plays, but also when he stops (not like watching TV episodes). Building intensity, emotional rythm, climax and such, is WAY harder (if not impossible). Some games run for 50+ hours and you have to keep things both interesting and clear. Many games allow a freedom that requiere fragmented story parts that can be assembled by the player in a non linear way (even if the outcome of the plot is forced) and that's something that doesn't really exist in movies. VG, while they can learn some storytelling tricks from movies and books, should not try to follow the same path at all. And let's not forget, as it was said in the original video, that you have two very different kind of "story-games". One is about telling the story of a character (Kratos for instance) to the player, the other about letting the player make its own story through an avatar. Once again, the means and ends are very different. What Jaffe said is very interesting, but IMO, doesn't apply to the two. At some point, you can already see the "natal's slap" approach in ME2, when you can interrupt a scene with an instant action, and it works pretty well.
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Because they're there, and videogames are copying them and aspiring to at least emulate them. For me there's no point developers even trying to do this unless they want to achieve better results and something on the level of at least a decent potboiler novel or film.
When it comes to the story itself, the narraitive, I take a pretty harsh view in a sense: If the story would be better told in a book then write a book, don't waste a good story in a game.
Also, the rules of narrative are very old, and videogames aren't going to excape compariosn, particularly if developers put them in, just because of the medium. This isn't something new. Cinema went through exactly the same criticism for years (even still arguably) as it struggled to become artistically level with literature and plays.
To look at it another way, should I watch Transformers 2 and go this is crap because it's a film but forgive the same level ot trite storytelling technique because it's Gears of War and it's a game? Or should I watch Transformers 2 and not even judge it on those terms, just accept it as knowing crap creatively made solely to make money with the story simply a context for the action, and take the same view for Gears, etc?
I say no, personaly, I don't see why using classic techniqes just to give some context to a videogame or action scene should let you 'off the hook' for quality. If you're going to write dialogue, invent characters and try and convey a narrative then it should be judged as such as compared to what is perfectly achieveable. Videogames don't need to have poor dialogue, that can be fixed by hiring the right talent and employing them correctly. Same for voice acting (where appropriate). Look at the leaps there these days.
In the end, if you're going to use a medium you should have a reason, or you should aknowledge that it's just a framing device and leave it at that - i.e. stick to pure videogames.
I don't want to sound over critical, but it's how a medium matures. Take Heavy Rain. It's fair to ask, why make it a game at all? Was that the best choice? Why not a film? Would that have been superior to convey the themes and emotions? What about a novel? Why do QD keep trying to tell stories in this way?
Now of course, part of the answer is to trail blaze, to try new stuff. Which is fine. But constructive criticism - i.e. realising you don't have it down pat yet - is important if these types of games are to improve and not just be a gimmick. I'd hope the developers behind Heavy Rain scour the internet to get reactions to the game, to what seemed to work and what didn't. I'm sure they will. Heavy Rain is already a big jump in quality and maturity from their previous title - who knows how they might polish their approach next? But that needs criticism to happen.
I like your concept of Natal slap, BTW, as that's what I'm getting at in terms of the input elsewhere in the thread. The less you need strange prompts and odd ways to make a choice, the better the immersion. Natal could be great for story driven titles (although I think it's fundamentally flawed for many existing 'pure' game mechanics) so we'll have to wait and see. Certainly Heavy Rain would work much better with motion controls and a context you can 'learn' vs some random prompts.
Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...
