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Kasz216 on 25 February 2010
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SciFiBoy said:
Kasz216 said:
adriane23 said:
Kasz216 said:
adriane23 said:
Kasz216 said:
adriane23 said:
Alright, this was 25% substantive discussion and 75% complaining, repetition, and sound bites. Oh well Obama, at least you tried.....

To pass something around 75% of America is against.

Using your calculation, lets say 75% of Americans (The ones that don't care) have decent health insurance and 25% (The ones that care) don't have insurance. That's a lot of people without insurance because a small percentage of alot is still alot. If the 25% that don't have insurance develop a chronic disease/ailment that is too expensive to pay for treatment out of pocket, they go to the ER when their medical condition gets life threatening. They now have a medical bill that they can't afford and is much higher than what it would've been if they had health insurance to pay a portion of the cost to treat their initial symptoms before they progressed. The unpaid medical bills create a burden on the hospital and the hospital is forced to increase fees and cut back on care and labor, ultimately decreasing the quality of healthcare for anyone that isn't wealthy.

A) It's not my calculation. It's poll numbers. B) It doesn't break down like that. Most of those people are actually against a bill that forces them to get healthcare or pay giant fines believe it or not.

A) My bad, let me re-phrase it then, "to use the calculation you posted on here."

 

B) You mean to say most of those people are against a bill they THINK forces them to get healthcare or pay giant fines....

Your missing the point... many of the 75% who don't care... are actually poor people who see the Obama plan for what it is... a bad plan that will make things worse. The people supporting it are mostly people who have NO IDEA what being poor is or what being without health insurance is about. It's beng pushed by well meaning ignorant people who are proposing a plan that will only make things worse for everybody across the board.

I think I get it, youre saying that even if people are in favour of socialised healthcare, the current bill proposal wont work for them?

you need to elaborate on that a bit more, what is wrong with this bill from the POV of someone who wants socialised healthcare?

Indeed.  Most people in the country want healthcare reform... most do not want this bill... in fact most want Congress to start entirely over... this is why the Republicans have been pushing the "Lets start over" and "lets have cameras in the negotiations like you originally wanted" cards.   The reconciliation isn't to stop republicans even though that's how it's spun... it's being used to twist the arm of moderate democrats who wouldn't of passed the thing even with a philibuster proof senate... a lot of unions aren't even for it... and they're usually pro universal healthcare. 

 

I could go into a big list rattling off reasons why people are against it... but I think the easier way to explain it is vs the UK plan which you are familiar with.

In the UK plan, the government negotiates with it's union of doctors what it pays for.

In the US plan, the government will give vouchers and tax breaks to people to pay their premiums.

It's setting up a big buerocracy that isn't really going to have the power to change anything.

We're going to create a giant health exchange... which will be the equivlent to one of those websites auto insurance companies have... but ours is going to cost BILLIONS.


This is something people could just do for themselves mind you, get quotes from multiple insurance companies... but we're going to create an exchange to do it for billions of dollars... for got knows why.  It's this that is being banked on to be the be all and end all of lowering prices and increasing coverage... and it's something that people could already do themsleves with little effort.

 

The bill is a few very good ideas wrapped around a couple DISASTEROUS ideas without enough price controls... and spending that is entirely unnessisary... instead relying on hope that prices will drop without changing anything to force prices to drop.

 

The government NEEDS power to negotiate with the markets if they're going to go socialized... but instead they plan to go more socialized but leave the prices up to the free market.

 

Imagine the UK trying to pay for everyones health insurance without being able to negotaite what the health insurance or any procedures cost.