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theprof00 on 14 February 2010
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loves2splooge said:
theprof00 said:
 

But the question keeps circling back. What's to enjoy about beating a game, when you had someone holding your hand the whole way. You are right, we only live once. So play games that make you want to play them. What you need to understand is that none of this has been about bashing people who ask for help. It's about the credibility of the criticism. It's not just about critisizing a hard game, it's about critisizing something that he hasn't even given a chance because he is being guided past the game.

I still don't know why you are hounding this macho venue. It's not working. It's a dead end. This is not the argument, but you do have a point. However, that point is off-topic because it doesn't relate to this at all. But I agree with you. There should be a certain amount of give. Just don't critisize something you are not really playing. It's like critisizing a game when you're using game-genie or whatever, or a downloaded save game.

It's like watching a scary movie and having a friend say "something is going to pop up in 5 seconds when it pans to the tv". Not because it helps you get through the movie, but because it ruins the atmosphere. For other games I really wouldn't be as persistant as I am, but in this case, the atmosphere is one of the main draws, and this ruins it.

Back in the day when games whooped your ass (and I remember those days. My first console being an NES, then a Genesis), we as gamers had three, sometimes four options. Keep trying again, ask others for help (whether it's friends and family, writing to Nintendo Power LOL or calling an expensive game tip hotline number found in the game's box or manual), put the game aside and play something else or cheat ("up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, A, B, Start" or Game Genie). As a gamer in those days, I accepted the way things were because there was no alternative. If I kept getting my ass kicked, I'd ask a friend or family member for help, put the game aside and try again later or as a last resort, use a cheat code (if we knew about one) or Game Genie code found in the Game Genie manual just so that we could see what happens next. Alternatively, if the game used passwords, we'd use an end-game password and try to "beat" the game that way)

But in this day and age, where gamers don't have to put up with the things we put up with back in our youth (and especially now that time is much more precious to us than in our carefree youth), you damn right we are more entitled. Gaming is entertainment, if we're not having fun, the point is lost. The hell we went through as kids was fun because that was all we knew. Technology has changed the game. You wouldn't believe how overjoyed I was when I discovered GameFAQs in the late 90s soon after getting an internet account and was finally able to pass the areas that I was stuck in for YEARS in certain NES and Genesis games thanks to what people have been sharing online. We romanticize those childhood times but in just one moment (discovering GameFAQs), I realized that I wasted hundreds of hours I'm sure being stuck in areas I couldn't figure out how to pass and that's not a good feeling. We were ok with that as kids because that's just how things were, we didn't know of a different reality. We put aside the game for another go in the future, bought another used game at the flea market with our pitiful allowance money (lol) or went back to a previous game that we couldn't beat or we were stuck in. I think things are better now that gamers have a vast network of gamers to share tips, ideas and secrets with.

So yeah, I think guides are a positive thing. That doesn't mean you have to have the guide hold your hand the whole way through because yeah, I agree that this does ruin the game. I especially get that with Demon's Souls because I do agree that with a game (or even say a scary movie as you mention) where surprise is part of the experience, it's less fun when the surprise is gone. One of my favorite things about Diablo 1 was the element of surprise and danger in the dark dungeon. Especially with the maps being randomly-generated. If Diablo wasn't randomly generated and I had out a guide detailing everything that is going to happen before I experience it, it would kill the atmosphere. Though is it game killing if you look up online for tips on how to build your character (how much you should invest in strength, dexterity, vitality and magic) to help you play better? No.

 

Now, everything you say here, I completely agree with. This is how I've always felt about it too.

I look up builds and strategies all the time. I read trophy guides, and write them as well. There is nothing wrong with saving yourself some time and effort. However, I think that when you do, you have no right to take claim to those accomplishments, or to bitch and moan about anything. It's really a pity to see that kind of behavior, because it's truly pathetic. At least, if someone realizes that they are taking some special help on something, that it should at least get some respect and that's not what I saw here. This was a complete lack of respect and a community appeal to accept that criticism as if it had credentials, "I'm not bad at the game, I've only died twice in two hours.....".

Honestly, at first I didn't think he was using a guide at all. I thought he was just lying about the whole thing because the statement is just so contradictory. "I only died (three) times", "can't stand the repetition", "this is a bad game". It just doesn't follow.