The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:
I just want to point out that all games have a story or cut-scenes. It's just that the presentation is different.
When you're watching a boss die in Super Metroid or reading text boxes in Mario Galaxy, it is the same as us watching laughing octopus die in mgs4, or having dialogue spoken to us in a scene rather than reading it.
The movie games may take a little bit longer, but you can always skip a cutscene anyway. I really don't understand all the bitching that occurs over games with video production.
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Whoa whoa whoa.
Some of the best games of all time have NO story whatsoever. Space Invaders. Pac-Man. Tetris. SimCity. Wii Sports.
Super Metroid has minimal story, but is very cinematic. It feels and plays like a movie at parts, but there's not much of a story there. Some films and some books are all about mood and feelings and not actual events and twists and decisions. Like Eraserhead or Catcher in the Rye for that matter. Some games pull that off very well without shoving hours of story down your throat. Could be Super Metroid, could be Out of This World, could be Shadow of the Colossus, could be No More Heroes 2 (the game is full of cutscenes but they don't tell a story at all).
My problem is when a game uses cutscenes to just tell me what's going on, instead of showing me what's going on, or letting me play what's going on. If I wanted to hear a monologue explaining everything I'd listen to a book on tape or watch a really good classic James Bond film.
It's not a crime to like both at all, and I'm not saying it is. But it's a crime to say that ALL games need a story. That leads to the path that says MGS4 is the best game of all time and Wii Sports is the worst game of all time, and that's madness.
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all of those games you listed have uncontrollable cinematic parts. In pac-man you have level introductions, death animation. Tetris has the rocket ship, simcity has the picture and explanation showing up when certain things happen etc etc.
The difference is the level of production. You can always skip cutscenes too, so it's not like it's such a big deal. I'm not saying all games need a story. I'm saying there is always a certain level of uncontrollable gameplay which is used to illustrate what is happening with your character or some story element.
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Uncontrollable cinematic parts are not automatically a story.
Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Tetris, SimCity, and Wii Sports have no story. There is no narrative because there is no beginning, middle, and end. Some times they throw in a little bonus video for no reason other than to celebrate your high score, but are you seriously going to argue that the goal of Tetris is to launch a rocketship? Does your space pilot character have a name, or motivation, or a backstory? A bonus video is no narrative.
The animations in Pac-Man tell you nothing about the next level, or about anything. They are completely random movies of the characters partying or chasing each other back and forth. And Pac-Man has no ending. You play for hundreds of screens until the game crashes. It was intended to be played forever. It wasn't until stuff like Donkey Kong where there was an actual intro cinematic and ending cinematic, and a story with a beginning, middle, and end.
And Wii Sports... I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no intro videos or bonus videos for high scores or anything. You just play and compete for high scores forever. No ending, no story.
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let's go back to the beginning rubang and re-read. "a story OR cutscenes". I'm flabberghasted by your continuance of this debate after I tried to reclarify in my reply. Perhaps I should've quoted myself then, because you didn't get what I was saying. All I'm saying is that there is some kind of uncontrollable scene in every game that is not considered gameplay. Wiisports also has little intro videos to all the games. Again, to point out an ironic argument, movie cutscenes cna be skipped, and in-game cutscenes cannot (for the most part, although they can be hurried sometimes). I just think it's interesting that people complain about skippable movies when they have their own unskippable events in their own games. The time-delay in returning to gameplay is not so vast when one considers skipping.
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Okay. Sure. I'll give you that. Most games have some microscopic unskippable animation to count your lives or score or to watch you or a boss die. Even the first arcade games needed to boot up. But I hope I wasn't accidentally arguing with you about that this whole time. That's not what I or anybody else (I assume) have been complaining about. Those tiny events are mandatory for gameplay, and I wouldn't even call them cutscenes.
I see people complaining about the long videos in Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy games. The problem, for some people, is that the focus on the story takes away from the gaming experience. Not in all stories, but when it takes so long you have time to put the controller down, make a sandwich, and eat the whole thing, before it wants you to start playing again.
And making them skippable isn't enough for me. Skipping a cutscene is for the 2nd playthrough. If they're going to waste my time telling me a story, I'm at least going to sit it out the first time. It just pisses me off that I need to put the controller down and wait. I want fast gameplay and fast stories. I think games can still be epic and cinematic and never slow you down like that. Portal comes to mind. Basically, I wish all games could be more like Portal or Out of This World or X-COM. All those games have stories that don't get in your way, and some of the best gameplay ever.
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