Square Enix is lazier than Nintendo...

[RageBot]

jarrod said:

RageBot said:
So basically you say that because they didn't sell in Japan they didn't have a good story, and that because DQ sells in Japan it had a good story, yet in no way, shape or form did you prove a reason for why do you think it is the story that sells the game in Japan, while I point to sales of earlier DQ and FF that had shitty stories and sold bucketloads :)

And about cliches - you can't have a story without ones because litereature exists for over 2500 years, you can't make a story where everything is new, Xenogears is known for combining a lot of different ideas, many of which are not cliche, to a massive complete package.

About Terranigma, again, I was talking about Western forums, not Japanese ones.

You really are good at arguments sometimes but you lost this one.

Now try finding a reason for proving that they sold based on stories other than the facts that:
A. You like the stories
B. The games sold a lot in Japan

While overcoming the point that:
C. The games still sold a lot in the earlier games which had shitty plots, while sales of the sereis increased on par with regular market growth.

go go go!

No, I'm not seriously suggesting those other RPGs didn't sell as well due to stories, I'm simply refuting your ungrounded notions of "western cult classics" as meaning anything.  I guess sarcasm doesn't come through well enough on the internet.  You'll also notice DQ didn't hit multimillions until the stories and histories evolved deeper though.

And "everything's a cliche" isn't an excuse for Xenogears' disjointed, ridiculous, kitchen sink storyline.  Complexity doesn't equal depth, and Xenogears proves how convolution and superficiality can go hand in hand.  It's the textbook definition of "shitty story" imo.

Terranigma (in the west) is beloved due to it's game design.  Christ, it's an action RPG, and just recycles the same theme of all Quintet games (rebuilding the world) with a more "badass" hero this time.

Xenogears' story isn't deep, a convulted and complex story can't be deep, since a story really can't be both deep and complex, since a complex story happens in the game, but a deep story happens in your mind, it makes you think about things.
However, a complex story always keeps you guessing - what is this about, what about that, what will I find after this dungeon, and thus it is a great way to have someone go through a game.
And the reason for all of the things you say aren't because it is "cliche" but because of budget problems because the creation of FF8 was too money-consuming that a large part of Xenogears' budget was given to .

Anyway, to each his own, I don't really remember how we got into this argument, you like stories plain and simple, I like them complex and intriguing.

And still no one disputed my points about the fact that the reason DQ and FF got big in Japan is due to their gameplay.