@ Coolbeans, after playing both games extensively (I mean I hit over 800G in Forza 3 and unlocked the F1 car in prologue) in both cases using a wheel at somepoint I think I have a fair idea what Im talking about. Don't drag me into details. In terms of features, community, physics, visuals (F3 looks awful compared to Selnors screenshots btw, and the cockpits are a joke), attention to detail, peripheral support and basically everything else apart customization and online (GT5 will change this tho) GT not beats, but destroys other console racers, including Forza. Oh, and the damage in GT will be far superior aswell, although thats hardly hard to achieve.