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twesterm on 10 December 2009
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Kenryoku_Maxis said:
twesterm said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:

 

twesterm said:
Gilgamesh said:
twesterm said:
Did FFXII revive the genre?

It didn't have to, the JRPG's were thriving in the West last gen, not so much this gen.

Ah, well, in that case the Final Fantasy series is what is killing the JRPG's then.

It's not that they're bad, it's that they are setting the bar too high.  SE can handle taking five years to make an insanely high budget game but when FFXIII is released, good or bad, a bar on the look of the game will be set.

JRPG's are a funny breed because gameplay doesn't matter so that means the game relies on graphics, story, and characters.  Since you cannot see story and characters (well, character design I guess, but whatever) that means people are left to look at graphics.

Lets jump back for a second-- look at your general shooter game, a major genre these days.  There are without a doubt some shooters that look better than others, but the major ones are all in the same league.  The ones that aren't are instantly compared to those top tier ones and seen as inferior.   If you don't keep up with the cutting edge game or beat it in some way, you get no attention and do not sell.

Ok, so knowing that lets jump back to JRPG's.  SE with their infinite budget and dev time are free to complete their graphical masterpiece.  You see a commercial and see their quality in their graphics and instantly know that's going to be good.  Looking at almost any other non SE RPG it's instantly apparent they do not meet that bar.

Since those other non-SE JRPG's cannot meet that bar, they are instantly in the lower tier of an already low tier genre.

That's the first major strike.

The next major strike is to even make a modest JRPG it's a huge budget.  It's hard to make a AAA game and it's hard to find someone to fund a AAA game.  If they do fund that game, they want something that they know is going to sell.  This doesn't really have anything to do with SE, but, JRG's don't traditionally sell well because, as you said, they are in need of a revival.

So the fact that SE is setting the bar so unrealististly high and the fact the genre is already a high risk, RPG's are no longer on the forefront.  They are doomed to sit in the background with the point and click adventures.

I find your whole example hillarious.  Seeing as how, like most people, you consider Final Fantasy to be the pinnacle of Japanese RPGs.  As if everyone thinks this and all developers are just focued on either copying or toppling it.

I think you forget where nearly all Japanese RPGs are aimed at.  Oh...the Japanese.

The #1 JEPG in Japan is: Dragon Quest (IX Currently).  If anything, more JRPGs would be trying to copy that formula that Final Fantasy, simply because its more popular and less costly to do so.  But second of all, if you actually looked around...like 90% of JRPGs are on DS or PSP.  Why is 'the bar' set only by a game on the PS3 focused on graphics.  Which seemingly is taking most of its ideas and source material from previous Final Fantasy games I may add?

If aything, FFXIII is going to be released and Japan is going to obsess over it for a few months, then go right back to playing DQIX, Monster Hunter 3 and Pokemon Gold/Silver.  And America....it'll probably make an even weaker splash and get phased out by the next big FPS or action title.

I will agree with one thing though.  Final Fantasy is killing the JRPG.  But in America.  Because 1) the avg 'JRPG' fan thinks its the end all of JRPGs and yet is growing tired of the series and 2) Because SquareEnix is running the series into the ground with endless sequels, prequels and spin-offs (there's been arounf 45+ 'Final Fantasy' games released in just this gen alone).

Dragon Quest IX is only killing because it's on the DS.  If it were on any home console it would do well since it's Dragon Quest, but it wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is now.

Also, Dragon Quest is SE so it's kind of a moot point.  Again, they can spend as much time and money on the game they want because it's SE.

This has nothing to do with the quality of game or culture, it has to do with SE having infinite budgets and time.  Because of that they raise the bar impossibly high and nobody can compete with that.  It works for SE because now they're seen as the best because, well, nobody else wants to give a JRPG an infinite budget and time and be forced to compete with the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy name.

I think Capcom (Monster Hunter) and Nintendo (Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario) are doing just fine...

Again, SquareEnix may have 'infinite time' but they don't have infinite resources.  Wada has sad multiple times how FFXIII is going to 'make or break' his company.  And frankly, all of these endless ports, spin-offs and remakes of Final Fantasy for the last 5 years has been a desperate stalling tactic by the Square side to buy time until FFXIII came out.

Its pretty sad how Dragon Quest IX sold over 4 million units and probably made SquareEnix a fortune, but FFXIII has a chance to erase all of that with its massive production costs, delays and marketing budget.  Its no wonder Wada is pressuring Yuji Horii to release Drago nQuest X on the Wii by 2012.

You know that bolded part pretty much proves my point?

As for Monster Hunter and Pokemon, I'm sure someone that knows more about RPG's than I do could name 20 failed ones for every wildly successful ones.

Also, Pokemon is barely an RPG and only sells because kids eat it up.  Just like WoW will never be the thing to save PC gaming, Pokemon will never save any genre.  As for Monster Hunter, it's a portable game and portable RPG's generally do better because they're immune to the infinite budget thing since you don't need PSP and DS games to look as amazing as FFXIII.

And Fire Emblen and Paper Mario may both be amazing but how well did they sell?