Should abortion be banned?

[mrstickball]

highwaystar101 said:

mrstickball said:

Abortion is about the only issue I have a non-libertarian view on. However, if I was given the ability to ban it, I am unsure if I would outright ban it (as it may not change the views of why people destroy life, which is the key component of why abortion even exists - we need to promote a culture of life and responsibility).

I understand that some argue that it's a human life from conception, others argue that it's at some other time, and I think that's a huge problem. Even if it's not human life, it is still life that will become human. That's why I consider abortion a bad thing. Furthermore, I am not very understanding of why it is more expedient to destroy the life as opposed to bringing it to term, and giving it up for adoption. As others have said, in most countries that allow abortion (western democracies) there is a high demand for adopting babies. If the reason for abortion is because a woman doesn't want the baby, and there are (litterally) millions of women that want the baby....Why not take the time, deliver the healthy baby, and give it away?

I understand your viewpoint, however, it's not one I can agree with. Women (and the men who impregnate them) take the responsibility of life very lax, and I think that's absolutely horrible. I think that getting pregnant is like getting drunk or high - you need to take responsibility for those actions. And I don't believe aborting the child is an action that should be taken.

However,

From a legal standpoint, I can't say I would instantaneously ban it if I was given the miraculous chance to get rid of such an atrocious practice. Our laws need revised concerning abortion - it's not a federal issue, it is a state issue and the onus should be on the state to allow (or disallow) the usage of abortion, as well as the praxis behind it (parental consent for teens, sonograms before abort, ect). States and their voting constituency should be the ones that decide how best to deal with the practice.

Having said all of that, the best way to deal with abortion from an inoffensive centrist point is that we absolutely must change the motivations behind abortion. When 90% of abortions are being done for mere social purposes - the mother does not want the baby - they are being done for the wrong reason, and we need to avoid that. We can best avoid that by promoting the usage of adoption, and instilling a culture of life, love and respect for women that decide to give up their baby for adoption. The link I gave earlier shows a strong correlation between cultural ideas - that single women raising or aborting by their own will - is greatly effecting why women abort, raise their kids in poverty, or decide to give up their children. Interestingly enough, it's the uneducated, poor American woman that decides to abort. There is a strong correlation between higher education and actually giving up the child. It's for that reason we need better education to instill a better understanding of responsibility that seems to lack from why women abort.

In the end, I think there's a way that we can remove abortion - through state law and cultural change - that respects the idea of being pro-choice and a culture being pro-life. Maybe the option needs to exist, but I think that most of the 40,000,000 kids that died in America are because of selfish women.

Also, one should note the interesting fact that the reason that Europe is well below the birth replacement rate is due to abortions. For every 1000 life births, there are 500 abortions. Do you think that this freedom is having a positive impact on your society?

@ Bolded: Me? I'm sorry, I'll stop getting abortions lol.

@ the European influence:

Europe is below the replacement rate due to abortions true, but I'm afraid that fact is misinterpreted to you I believe. I don't think that abortion is having a particularly negative impact on Western European society, statistically the Eastern European countries are the ones with the highest abortion rates, with countries like Ukraine and Russia topping the table (Russia having 6 abortions per 5 live births). So in the Western European society, we don't really feel the negative effects of abortion here as it is a "service" if you like, which is used wisely by people. The map below shows Abortion rates as a percentage of pregnancies in Europe.

Source

So as you can see in Britain there is a low abortion percentage, as with France, Germany, Italy, etc...

I would not consider abortion to be a problem that is rife here, it is very much under control (and on a personal note, the only people I know who have had abortions (which admittedly is only 3 women) have done it out of a sensible choice and early on.).

However, the case is that obviously in Eastern Europe abortion is a problem, but the answer to solving this problem isn't to ban abortion, it must lie elsewhere.

Why do I say this?

Because both Western Europe and Eastern Europe have similar levels of legality, but the rates are so different that there must be an underlying factor. 

I can single out certain factors.

One of these is economy. The GDP of the country corresponds almost directly abortions rates, which can be seen on the map below. In countries that have low GDP rates, they typically have a high abortion percentage too. Low income means that these people are less likely to be able to support children. So when pregnancy occurs, they must find a solution, which often leads to abortion. A further factor to this is that eastern European adoption services are notoriously shady, and so it is an undesirable solution.

Source

The second is quality of education. The quality in Eastern European countries are typically below average on education rankings (source) and so this has an impact on knowledge about sex and contraceptives. This would likely result in many unwanted pregnancies, which if you're also living in a country with low GDP (as I shown earlier), it will lead to a high abortion rate.

 

Anyway, to get back to my point. Abortion is legal in Western Europe, but it is not a problem here because we have the capacity to look after and deal with babies from unwanted pregnancies, and the education on contraceptives and sex leads to a greater transparency of information on the subject, so people are more aware of their actions and consequences. People are more likely to get abortions for more severe situations. So I would say in my society (western europe) abortion has been a positive aspect.

Unfortunately Eastern Europe isn't as lucky as us and it has such I high abortion rate that I would imagine it is cause for great concern. Here it could be seen as a bad thing. But the truth is it shouldn't be banned here at all. The high rates of abortion are not because it is legal, but because of many factors that have caused an unfortunate situation. The solution would be not to ban abortion, because that would just force couples to bring up babies they can't afford, or have abortions illegally. It will cause the problem to get worse.

I think the solution is to improve education quality on the matter and perhaps offer small amounts of income support for children being born... Which easier said than done unfortunately.

Thanks for the data. Still though, you must understand the idea that if most western countries are still aborting 20-30% of all births, you are hurting your birth rate by approximately 0.4-0.6 children per family which is right where Europe has dipped under the replacement rate. That is, that if abortion occurred at a rate of 1-3%, Europe wouldn't have a declining population.

I agree (and I mentioned too) that education and economic background have a great impact on why women abort. It is the same in America, too. We do need better education and understanding to help prevent abortions.

I would disagree though on why people get abortions in more 'severe situations'.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

Has a lot of great abortion statistics. It is good to know that Europe is leading the way on fewer abortions (hurray for Europe!)

According to their data, the greatest reason for abortions is unwanted pregnancies (duh!) as half of all unwanted pregnancies end in abortion (rather than for medical purposes). A correlating factor of why abortions occur is the lack of contraceptives - 2/3rds of all unintended pregnancies occur when a woman is not using any form of contraception.

So I would argue that:

• Abortions are inherantly bad, as they do cause reduced birth rates in developed countries that need the children
• Abortions are caused due to unintended pregnanices (which as per any and all reports is the reason behind the majority of abortions)
• Contraception plays a key factor in reducing the rate of unwanted pregnancies and abortions
• Education (as you stated) is key, as smarter women have a tendancy to either use proper protector, or give their child up for adoption

I agree that a stipend should be rendered to women that are willing to carry their child to term should there be a waiting list for adoptions. In America, there is a lot of red tape for adoption which may cause a negative perception concerning adoption - which I think is very bad for children.

But I must ask this of you, HighwayStar: Do you believe (regardless of legality) that abortions are a good thing or a bad thing? I'm not referring to legality, only to your view of abortions.