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Ah it was today.

Good luck winning that argument.

The only people who can really unbiasedly value the "good" the catholic church provides via spitirual development are those who are Catholics.

And the only people who can really unbiasedly value the "Bad" are non Catholics.

How much charity work do you attribute to the Catholic Church? Anything done by a Catholic or just ones specifically funded by the Church etc.

Pretty Nebulous debate.

There are few points through history where i'd say the catholic church was a force of good... but then again i'm not catholic.