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vlad321 said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Xelloss said:

Yes, outside of making someone who worked on something rightfully angry that his work is being stolen - Piracy from those who would assuredly not have bought the product has no effect on sales, and no bearing in business decisions. Irritating customers, and paying exhorbitant sums to defeat something that doesnt cost you money is bad business.

Yes, clearly the majority of piracy is not an actual lost sale - but many are. Think of the people you know who have pirated games. Do they pay for some games that are harder to pirate, like WoW? Do they buy console games? While granted, most pirates games wouldn't have been purchased anyway, if piracy were eliminated, it would result in higher sales. Even if it isn't most of them, there are still SOME that would buy.

 Many , especially the purveyors of anti-piracy tech like to put forth every illegal download as a lost sale. Now, when talking about people in the USA Western Europe, especially people in demographics that do have a degree of disposable income, this has some weight. Amongst some groups, there is certainly a high percentage of folk who may in fact have bought the game had they not been able to pirate it so easily.... however the numbers of these people are far far lower than, say, the number of Africans eastern Eurasians etc who live in areas where their currency has so little purchasing power in terms of USD$ that the major publishers do not even make serious attempts to serve the market.

Agreed - clearly not every pirated game is a lost sale. But when you take a came like Assassins Creed, where 17x the pirated copies were DLed than the real game - it seems to have a very real impact on sales sometimes.

 At the very least, when trying to make a comparison between number of people who pirate and number of people who buy in either an ethical or a business argument, the numbers used should only include ones relative to the debate. Blaming the "PC community"  , as in - the US and maybe Western European PC community for overwhelming piracy is silly if the overwhelming majority of  actual pirates are in Russia, or China etc. Ethically, its different groups of people - and businesswise you are assured beyond reasonable debate that the folk overseas were a lost sale from the get go, and no amount of anti-piracy invesment is likely to glean money from them.

Bear in mind, this is only true during the short-term. If piracy were squashed, these countries would eventually take steps to obtain the software legally, be it by reduced prices and alternate methods of acquiring it. In many countries it is so easy/penalty free to pirate, that no effort is made even if the economy could support valid sales. And to a large extent, this includes our own country - plenty of piracy goes on in our borders. Heck, chances are th elisted statistics don't even include a lot of these other countries. How many people in lands with valueless currency and poor economies do a large number of people have access to connection speeds that allow them to just download several GB files?

 This is actually the reason that Microsoft tuned down the anti-piracy lawsuits and rhetoric a good bit a few years back (at least in regards to targeting the individual home consumer). They came to find that this scenario was the case, and their efforts turned to international enforcement of copyright, shuttering true bootleg schemes ( Genuine Windows campaing) etc, and efforts of that nature. Because after the numbers were crunched and the data analyzed, the vast majority of people in the USA were using, or intending to use legit software. The small minority of hobbyists who reinstalled all the time and had many home machines , and the smaller minority of dedicated pirates who never paid for anything were an eyesore, but no threat to their business model.

Well yes, in the case of an OS, the overwhelming majority of people in the US use valid copies - however MS isn't a good example. MS's licensing requires that major PC manufacterers buy a license of their OS for every PC they sell - whether it ships with Windows or not. Since a handful of major brands comprise nearly all the PC sales in the US, Microsoft is, at most, worried about piracy from custom built PCs. A market, sure.. but nothing compared to the likes of Sony+Compaq+Hp+Dell+Toshiba+Acer(and on and on).

 

Can you stop cherry picking with AC? That game succked, at least pick a good game, like Witcher or Warcraft 3. What's that? They weren't pirated that much? What a shame....

WarCraft 3 was pirated to a ridiculous degree. You seem to think because it wasn't in the top 10 in 2008 that it wasn't pirates much. (A game that released in 2003)

As I've said, more than once, WC3's amount of piracy canbe easily seen by the number of custom servers running illegal copies using it's LAN functionality. You've just decided to ignore this. Unfortunately, there aren't any published stats on this, however anyone who plays WC3 somewhere other than battle.net can see this.

Edit:

Wow, just came across Monday's Penny-Arcade, and it reminded me of this discussion. It's dead on, and applied to numerous members of this thread.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/10/26/

Quoted:

As to why they want to create their own matchmaking network in the first place, the ability to make money selling maps is floated as a reason, and it makes a lot of sense - presumably they would rather make a million dollars than zero. A centralized defense against piracy is also suggested, and things tend to go downhill quick after this. It is not a mischaracterization to say that conversations with the hardcore PC community about software theft follow these tenets:

- There is no piracy.
- To the extent that piracy exists, which it doesn't, it's your fault.
- If you try to protect your game, we'll steal it as a matter of principle.

It's like, who wouldn't want to bend over backward in their service? You need to know it, because nobody else is going to tell you: you guys sound like Goddamned subway vagrants. Of course when you speak exclusively to each other, it all sounds so reasonable. It'll be reasonable when you all board the bus, and the songs you sing en route to excoriate your enemies will be forceful, but within reason; and when you douse yourself with gasoline and immolate yourself in front of the offices of Infinity Ward, one assumes this will be reasonable also.