Nintendo’s true competitor (Malstrom)

[Farmageddon]

Avinash_Tyagi said:

Farmageddon said:

As I said, the effect does exist, it's just not as big as he makes it seem.

Also, just to make it clear, I love those old games and do agree many of them are among the bests and all that, I just don't think it's the most relevant thing ever in this case.

I mean, are we perhaps forgetting handhelds here when we talk about the "industry"? Cause, bar this last gen (PSP specially, but DS too on a smaller scale), handhelds have been all about that kind of gaming while consoles "moved forward". And maybe the growth is due to market expansion (as in new markets), population growth and multiplatform owners (not that big IMHO, as it affects mainly the "hardcore", early adopter market), but even then, I believe if you compare the numbers (and there's no way I'm gonnatake the time to do that :P) you'll find out that, if you do have some receding in relative numbers, it won't be nearly as big as he makes it look.

Maybe moving away from the NES era style has alienated part of the NES era. But the PS2 kids couldn't give less of a damn about it, and they're just as valuable as the older, NES-initiated are. So by not cathering so much to that audience, the industry may have lost some of them (many kept on anyway, many would mve away anyway), but that doesn't mean this new style couldn't gather and keep a new generation of gamers interested. Now, obviously, it would be smarter to do both. It just wasn't possible/feasible/affordable/obvious at the time, I think.

And videogames are not any less mainstream now, or last generation, then they were on the NES days, so this whole "contracting towards the core audience", I don't quite agree with it, it's just a matter of looking at PS2 and realising it was pretty mainstream.

Anyway, Nintendo is now going back and revisiting old classics simply because it's a good time now. On N64, it would be too soon to take time out of Mario 64 development to try something like NSMB (and I don't mean these titles specifically, I mean the general idea), they had to prove the 3D vision. And it showed lots of promise, but the hardware was still really weak for some of that. So the GC days were naturally about exploring those new, intriguing elements.

(Just as a last comment, I do realise his point is not about 2D or 3D, but the same point I made there can be applied to lots of other elements/areas/ideas/designs/etc in a similar fashion)

 

Are you sure the receding won't be that big, the Industry collapsed rather rapidly during the Atari crash, even just a few years before people thought the industry was healthy. Depends on who you refer to as the PS2 kids, the core or the more wider audience? Because Nitnendo has already gone after the wider audience with its games. Gaming isn't less mainstream now, because of Wii, but before yeah it was contracting to the core, just because numbers had increased because of population growth and more markets, doesn't indicate expansion, losing the wider audience due to increased costs, higher complexity and boring (to the wider audience) experiences doesn't expand the market, it only drives people away. Thing is, 3D mario was never as popular as 2D Mario, the transition left a lot of people behind

All I said was that the difference in the relative number when compensating for those factors wouldn't be that big, and I stand by it until someone actually does the math and shows I'm wrong :P

By "PS2 kids" I meant the new generation that was introduced to games in the PS1-PS2 era, that incluedes both some of the "core" and a good deal of the "wider audience".

And gaiming was quite mainstream on the PS2/GBA days. It did loose an audience, but it got other, and that was my point. Sure it would be better to keepp the old audience as well as the new one, but it's not like the former is more important. Let's say games went away from the point they came in the last few generations and all of them go back to the "basics" (I'm not talking simply, or even mainly, graphic-wise here, just to make it clear). We'd be getting back some of that old audience (some just left because they changed), and maybe capture some people who wasn't part of that audience but would be attracted to the same values, but we sure would loose a lot of market in the way.

And 3D Mario may never have been as popular as 2D Mario, true, but I bet the number of million selling series of games got up from the old days.