Congratulations ssj12, your man is on fire right now!

[Sqrl]

Helios said:

Sqrl said:

Parokki said:
I'm about 3/4 of the entire political spectrum to the left from this guy, greatly enjoying the free healthcare and university education my country provides, but I wouldn't at all if this guy became the next president of the United States. He reminds me of James Kirk, John Sheridan, and all the other awesome American leaders in fiction that never seem to exist in real life.

FYI - Your healthcare nor your education is free, thats why you pay taxes. The only thing you really have is less say in what you get for that money, next time you get annoyed with high prices in the EU relative to other regions you should remember that.

If people want to support this idealogy thats their choice, but lets not call it what it isn't. And it most certainly isn't free.

Way to patronize the guy. Do you honestly think he doesn't know how his own tax system works?

In the case of Parokki, yes, it is technically ‘free’, because he hasn't paid a lot of tax yet. But that's not the point of Socialism, obviously. The system exists primarily for the less fortunate - because they would never be able to pay for private services - as well as a means for the government to regulate how society grows and works. Yes, over here (Scandinavia/Europe), the government isn't considered evil. So, for those who pay very little taxes (they exist, of course, and enjoy a much superior life to their American-poverty brethren), it's ‘free’. And those who do pay for those people, well, they can afford it.

Now, Americans deluding themselves into thinking their country/ideology/garden/whatever is actually superior to others, rather than a functioning one... That’s another matter. Me? I don’t favour any system, but (Chinese) Communism is clearly where it’s at if you want progress.

Also, when I complain about prices, I complain about the difference after the VAT has been accounted for. Needless to say, it's still quite monumental, and is mostly a result of corporate greed.

Not sure what gave you the impression of patronizing the guy.  The fact is that he made a mistake in saying it was free.  A mistake that is almost certainly born out of the politicians propaganda that started the idea.  I hardly see how my pointing out that it isn't free is anything but pointing out the truth of the matter.  And if that truth scathes you then that is not my fault.

As far as which system is better and specifically bringing up Americans, thats on your head.  I didn't mention it in the slightest yet you assumed because you are defensive about such things.  Perhaps you should re-read what I said and understand that I wasn't attacking his system but rather correcting a false belief about that system.  Each soverign nation and it's citizens are entitled to determine the type of government and laws they shall adhere to, but a part of that is that each citizen should be keenly aware of what those laws entail.  And far too often socialism spreads under the guise of "free" this or that.  Its not free its something that people pay for and the government decides what you get.  If that is the system those countries want then that is their choice but the people should at least understand the system, or would you disagree with that?

I would argue that most people do not understand how the system works or statements like "I have free healthcare" would never be made.

In closing, if it is your opinion that my stance that people should know exactly how the system works is a position opposed to that system then I would ask what kind of honesty exists within that system?  What kind of legitimacy is there in a system that to explain it is to stand against it?