Final-Fan said:
appolose said:
1 a-b. Ok, we'll roll with that.
2. Yes. That is operating under the supposition that mathematics do not allow for quantum mechanics/multiuniverses. If you're wondering why I didn't mention that earlier, it's because I think quantum mechanics covers the idea of multiuniverses. So, if it can't have come from anywhere, then it was created.
3. Correct.
4,5,6. It is C; I think it works in that when I say no being or force of this realm can do it, I'm not saying no being or force at all can do it. As for that being/force acting in the physical, why does that make it physical? This is how the observations are not contradictory.
7. Deduction never has anything to do with how you arrived at the premesise (spelling?); only that it follows from them. In the case of science, I show it making two inductions, then showing the necessary consequence of those inductions (assumptions).
8. I'm not sure I understand you here quite: Science will never be sure of anything (heck, you know what I think of empiricism at all ;) ), Is that what you mean?
9. Possible in the sense that it uses the tools and methods of science, that is. What our universe really is I'm not using as part of my argument against "science cannot ever, in any way, conclude supernatural".
10. Noted.
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4. What acts in the physical is physical.
7. You said (it seemed to me), 'I will be scientifically deducing the supernatural'. Then you said, 'I am now inducing the supernatural'. That is all.
8. You can't conclude the supernatural (excluding other universes) if "other universe(s) messing with us" is just as possible.
9. wat (so you're claiming you DO get to pretend whatever mathematical proofs you want for your scenario?)
10. Please also note my edit: to wit, I meant to remind you of 1b.
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4. I do not see how that follows.
7. Science induces, but things follow from what science induces. In other words, Science, here, is is saying " Okay, we'll assume A and B are both true. Therefore "If A, and B, then there must be C" (I'm positing, of course)
8. They're possible, yes, but, remember, "We have detected no physical cause: if it were exported from another universe, and we found no trace of a physical transportation. Then, science does what it always does; assumes that there is no means of physical transportation. That doesn't rule out another universe, mind you, but it does mean that there was a means of non-physical transportation, so the supernatural as an explanation is present either way". I'm not saying that I call the other universe "supernatural", I'm saying science would be left with only supernatural options. Either way, it must deduce the supernatural: If it was transported from another universe, it was transported divinely. If created, it was created divinely. While, in this case (allowing for the possibility of multiple universes), science could not decide which of those two choices it was, it's going to be one of them. Since both entail the supernatural, science discovers the supernatural (I posit).
9. It doesn't alter the methods of science, so I think it's alright. Right?
10. Mm. 1B noted.
