That Guy said:
Kasz216 said:
That Guy said:
Wasn't Thomas Jefferson a rebublican? I know I know, times were different at the time, but I think that's exactly the point I was getting at.
I think anything ~ 1920's and before really doesn't have anything to do with Republican/Democratic ideologies of today. The doctrine flipflops every once in a while.
So yeah the economy sucks. Mafoo argues that it would have been better for the Government to do nothing AKA Hoover and have it all burn down and fall faster so that we can start over faster.
Its like slowing down a burning building, as opposed to just razing the burning building and laying down the foundation the next day.
I think Obama is in a catch 22 at this point. If Obama had done NOTHING and just let all the companies fail, I'm pretty sure the public would complain about how he's standing by, twidling his thumbs as people are now living on the streets (and Halogamer and CommunistHater would be saying "see? Obama doesn't know what he's doing" and perhaps Mafoo would be the only one that would be happy).
Obama chose to spend money to at least invest into some infrastructure (i.e. discounts for more fuel efficient stuff, a la cash for clunkers) so at the end of the recession we'd be a set up to be more efficient. Also remember that some 40% of the stimulus package is tax cuts, certainly something the right wingers can get behind.
The whole AIG clusterf**k came from a bipartisan effort that was signed by Bush, so lets not lump that into the Obama administration. GM technically was bailed out by Obama, but their bailout was somewhere to the tune of 25 billion (which, admittedly, is still a lot of money) which is dwarfed by the 700+ billion needed to bail out AIG and co.
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No.
The first Republican President was Abe Lincoln.
Thomas Jefferson was a Democrat.
Or more specifically a "Democratic Republican". Eventually Republican got taken off when it split into multiple parties.
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Touche, but still I stand by my point. The ideologies have shifted so much that you really can't compare today's democratic party to the democratic party 200 years ago. Remember the south used to be 100% democrat all the way up until the 60's, and then they all switched and now most are republican to this day.
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Not quite.
State transitions in the south from Democrat to Republican aren't quite as long ago as you'd think. It's only been within the past ~20 years that the Republicans have gained a foothold in the South. Not only this, the South has been very balkanized when it's come to presidential elections prior to the shift, as they voted for 3rd parties in 2 elections.
Few examples:
- In 1976, Carter won almost every Southern state, except for Virginia. Nixon won every state north of the Mason-Dixon line, and west and north of Texas.
- In 1968, George Wallace won 4 Southern states (LA, AL, MI and GA)
- Between 1860-1880, Republicans did very well in the South. It was only at and after 1880 that Democrats carried the smaller southern votes.
- Prior to 1860, Democrats did not control the south in any meaningful form. Even in 1860, when Lincoln was elected, the South strongly favored Breckenridge and Bell, rather than Douglas.
I'd argue a lot of the reason the South was so pro-Democrat was that they attempted to create an rasist power base. When the 15th amendment was being adopted, Democrats were fiercely against the bill, having struck down the initial bill in the late 1860's, while Republicans upheld the bill. Odd how the south went Republican during 2 specific times: When slaves were freed, and when blacks got equal rights in the 60's.
