US Universal Healthcare: How are we going to pay for it?

[NKAJ]

HappySqurriel said:

NKAJ said:

HappySqurriel said:

NKAJ said:
if you watch the film sicko some startling truths come to light
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/

Michael Moore movies don't have any "Truths" in them, they're full of half-truths and outright lies; and the movies could best be described as propaganda for his political agenda. He cherry picks facts that support his position from a variety of sources, and then he ignores facts from these sources which disagree with his conclusions.

Does his movie demonstrate that 14% of Canadians have been unsuccessful in finding a family doctor because of the critical doctor shortage in Canada?

Does his movie demonstrate that waiting lists for major surgery are so bad in Canada that often Canadians travel to the United States and pay out of pocket to have their surgeries done in a timely fashion? Does it mention that a medical tourism industry formed in India which specifically targets Canadian patients as a lower cost alternative to traveling to the United States to get surgery in a timely fashion?

Does his moive discuss the cases of people dying from appendicitis after waiting hours in the emergency room without being seen by a doctor because of how long wait times were?

Does Michael Moore talk about how Canadians (in general) are more dissatisfied with their medical system than Americans are, and want reform to their system to make it function well?

 

Now, if you look at (pretty much) every medical system around the world you will notice a pattern that the quality, cost or access to healthcare has become dramatically worse over the past couple of decades because the cost of delivering healthcare has skyrocketed in every country; and public systems compensate by reducing the number of services they perform, which results in waiting lists and rationing. With this in mind, why is the discussion always surrounding who should pay or how fair/unfair certain systems are ... If someone was capable of re-creating a medical system as large and complicated as the American system, they should be able to list the top 10 things that are driving up the cost of healthcare and have multiple ways to manage those costs to bring healthcare costs down.

did you actually look at the link?
There are sources to back up his statements.

Where are all these facts your getting from?

btw..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html

Are you aware of the concept of cherry picking?

People who are cherry picking do not make up facts, they just go around to a variety of sources and take the facts which support their position while ignoring facts that disagree with their position.

Essentially, suppose there were two schools and one school had above average performance in history and poor performance in all other subjects while the other shcool had excellent performance in all subjects except for history, where the performance was average. If a cherry picker wanted to claim that the first school was better than the second school they would cite history performance to support their claim while omitting all other performance.

Michael Moore is well known for manipulating facts, and he will do everything in his power to create a false image of what he wants you to believe; and it is very easy to manipulate facts when using a movie. For example, if you want to demonstrate that the waiting times at Emergency rooms are not as bad as people claim in the Canadian system you could choose the least loaded hospital and visit it on the least busy day of the week at the least busy time of the day every week for several weeks until you had footage of a very quiet ER; and the audience of your movie would never be aware of the times you walked into the ER at this quiet hospital, on this quiet day at the quietest time of the day, and saw a man with a compound fracture that had been waiting for 4 hours to see a doctor.

while what your saying is probably true(we have the NHS in Britain and people complian about them) i think that the basic message of this film remains intact.I dont know why americans are so obsessed with thinking evrything is worse in canada but while some people may have to wait for hours more people in america wont even get any healhcare.People are working in their 80s just to have health insurance .i know america thinks its blashempy to have anything socalised but healthcare is one thing where its actually good.