US Universal Healthcare: How are we going to pay for it?

[Kasz216]

Scoobes said:

Kasz216 said:

Rath said:
A) Muslims != smokers. Sorry but they really are not the same thing.

B) Sick days are not personal costs. They are huge costs to the economy of the country.

C) I think that taxing cigarettes decreases the number of users (especially the number of people starting the habit) and has the happy side effect of putting a lot of money into the health system. Plus, smoking and alcohol both have negative effects outside of the person consuming them - smoking through second hand smoke and alcohol through drunkeness along with the monetary cost to society at large of both. Hence I believe taxation of both (despite the fact that I enjoy alcohol) to be fair.

A) Both are choices people make and something that should be up to them.

B) That in my opinion is facist thinking.  Someone losing sick time due to the effects of smoking is no different then someone "losing" time because they decide to not go into work in a day.  The government has no "right" to any time I don't go to work, no matter the reason.  Penalizing me for not working is at best light facism.  I mean why not tax people more who go on vacation?

C) Yeah that's... social engineering.  Which is wrong.  Your telling people "You arent responsible enough to stop smoking and drinking.  So we the government are going to stop you... or make you damn well feel it anyway! 

This is immoral.  If someone wants to do something unhealthy they should have every right to do it.

We should treat adults... like adults.

A) What really is the point you're trying to make?

B) Seriously? I think you'll find that his opinion is simply capitalist.

C) Social engineering is everywhere, get over it.

Overall, I think you need to understand that if you treat adults like adults, then any country would go to complete shit because large proportions of any adult population are complete and utter idiots. Hell, America managed to vote Bush in for 2 terms. Goverments and leaders manipulate the masses, its simply the way of the world.

My point is I'm not Pro-authortarian unlike you apparently.

The point is that

A) People should be free to make their choices outside of extreme direct negative actions such as murder and theft.

B) People's time is primarity property of the people who use that time.

C) Lots of unacceptable things are everywhere.., rape, racism, people who eat grapes before they weigh them to pay for them.  Letting something slide because it's everywhere is stupid.

If most adults are idiots... well so what then? People have the right to be stupid if they want to be.  People should be allowed to make their own mistakes.

If someone wants to take a bunch of drugs and become a burnout... that's there choice.

If someone wants to eat nothing but burgerking and have a heart attack at 30.  That's there choice.

If someone wants to smoke and get lung cancer.  That's there choice.

People shouldn't be treated as children and slaves.

Afterall the government is run by these same people.  What makes you think the government isn't full of idiots.  What's the point of having the blind leading the blind?  Other then making it so those who aren't blind are forced to follow along?

What makes a collectives desicion making better then the individual?  Nothing.