ManusJustus said:
Fossils: Have you looked at the fossil record? You think that a species is created, then goes extinct, then a new species replaces it. That is wrong, the entire fossil record is a 'transitonal' phase. What do you think happens then? God is involved in a endless cycle of killing species and replacing them with new ones. What about the early homo species that we have found? Did God create humans, kill them off, and create new humans that were a little different each time until he got to us? The only thing more ridiculous than denying evolution theory is the theory that is made up in its place. Useless Organs: You mention the coccyx which, even though the body would work fine without it and occasionaly develops into a tail, has more uses than many other examples of vestigial body parts. But what about a man's ability to produce milk, or the appendix, or various muscles that much of the population doesnt have? Answer this: Why do flightless birds have wings and whales have hind legs? Your Methods: It is very difficult to read your posts. Your last post consisted of two large copy and pastes whose readibility suffers in its new format. Furthermore, your main source is the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank whose stated goal is to "turn away from a materialistic worldview and replace it with a worldview with Christian and theistic convictions." The goal of science is not to create worldview opposed to religion, it is only to reveal truths about our world. Science would lead us to intelligent design and other 'religiously inspired' ideas if they were true, but since science seeks truth it is often at odds with these religious ideas. |
Manusjustus
I need to preference our argument when I speak I feel at times that I have no need to repeat myself. I said a long time ago to another poster that for Intelligent Design to be true there does not have to be an explanation of flaws. If ID is link to a religion then nothing in any religion that I know suggest that man or nature is perfect in fact, they all account for “chaos” or imperfection in some way. In the religion that is hated the most, it is said that nature was altered and corrupted. Most other religions express similar views.
So why am I arguing with you? The problem is that one of you said that we are “the product of bad workmanship.” So, what I am arguing is the absurdity of that statement. If there is no craftsmanship in man or nature then theories like Complexity Theory and String Theory would not have so much appeal. Complexity Theory is a theory that scientist are using to try to account for complexity, information (DNA is like a code, this is not my opinion or only the opinion of ID but of Hawkins and Bill Gates and Francis Crick as well), and beauty. The mere existence of the theory shows that there needs to be an explanation for order. Similarly, String Theory and Inflation Theory are scientific Theories that arose in order to explain Anthropic principle.
So, my problem is the ignorant notion that what you call flaws and things that are flaws are some how evidence of unintelligent design. At the very least, people like WessleWoggle are the closest too any real truth even though WessleWoggle seems mostly to be playing around =-).
There is nothing in Evolution that explains the order that we see. There is nothing in evolution to explain the Origin of life. Nothing in Evolution to explain the complexity, we see at the sub cellular levels. The ball is batted back and forth. One saying “I see order” and the other saying “I see no order”. So, in order to win all you have to say is that humans are poorly made. It’s a dumb, desperate argument.
When I was a kid, tonsils were thought to be useless they use to cut them out without a thought. We now know that they are important, I noticed that they are not on you list. They use to say that the appendix had no purpose at all, now even your article says that it has a purpose. (Maybe there is a reason why it gets inflamed a lot. IF, we did not eat so much meat would it be a stronger organ? We know that our modern diet is not the norm for our species. What would happen if mankind stopped eating meat with every meal, and ate mostly vegetables? What would happen then? Would the organ get stronger?).
Also, saying that people are born without things, and are able to live without it, is not evidence of Evolution. People are born without arms; people are born with webbed fingers- what does this say about evolution? Does it say that one-day man will only need one arm? Does it say that we came from water or that we are going back to the water, or does it say that things go wrong in the womb?
I could go threw item by item and but I would only do so because I like to learn but the argument is somewhat pointless if you cannot even see the order that scientist (who you say I do not follow) see in life.
Fossils:
I had a problem understanding some of what you meant in this section but I made some assumptions with my answer please correct me if I am wrong.
So what you believe in is Punctualted Equilibrium that different species appear abruptly in the fossil record? To quote Wrath:
“I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here to be honest. Are you saying that the fossil record does not have a complete history of evolution? Because if you are - we already know this. Fossils are rare and the fossil record is incomplete. It does however show in multiple cases a fairly long and complete set for certain animals, for example we can trace the modern horse back about 52 million years fairly completely.”
Wrath thinks I am bonkers but his testimony backs up all that I have said, “We already know this” and “fairly completely”.
Others of you have said the Evolution is Side by Side, but if it is side by side then that multiplies the need for more transitional phases. Every time a new species is introduced, it is shown to be a contemporary of what was thought to be its predecessor.
Evolution can’t happen someplace else all of the time.
