Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
No.... the socialized saftey nets are part of the reason FOR some of those problems.
Minorities for example are pissed because socialized saftey nets keep them unemployed and on Welfare. Additionally such Welfare makes the people look down on the Muslim people because it seems like they are almost always on Welfare to these people and are "lazy" and then laws like the headscarve laws pass, and people become and more and more racist.
Social Saftey nets impede the progress of minorites... far more then anything in the US does to ridiculious degrees.
France is much well off for us.
Higher standards of living = short term for one generation... for multiple generations, the poor stay poor... more then the US.
Higher Life expectancy = only for some, and again short term... additionally French life expentacy doesn't numbers never include all of france. Only metropolitian france.
Better schools = Less you can do with them with socilized saftey nets because of the unemployment.
It's like saying Cuba produces better baseball players then the US. Even if this is so.... you would rather be in the US as a baseball player.
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Actually Kaz, that's incorrect, the Muslims tend to be immigrants and less educated, that's why so many are on welfare, not because of the safety nets, but because they lack skills and are uneducated, there are only so many low wage jobs to go around. Also the muslims in europe tend to cause more crime than the ethnic europeans, just how it is, as a result they are looked down upon due to people thinking that all of them are criminals, by stereotyping the entire group for the actions of a few.
Actually when I refer to the life expectancy I looked at total populaion, not just metropolitan, it was 80.98 years vs. US at 78.06, also higher standard of living applies to the entire population as a whole, it may be short term, but unlikely since the economy in france is growing, and income dispariyy in france is smaller than in the US. Actually having better schools, means you can get better educated, so that even with the lower employment, you can get a job, I mean even with 8-10% unemployment, if you get a doctorate or a medical degree, you'll be able to find a job.
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Nope. When you account for educational differences Muslims are still much worse off. I know it's fun to talk off the cuff.... but i actually know this stuff.
Also, your wrong about life expectancy... it is only metropolitan. Though I suppose you may not know what metropolitan france actually refers to.
Income disparity is Gini coefficent. Not the same thing as being poor and trapped in poor.
Also there are lots of graduates in France who guess what... don't have a job.
You keep talking with little information on the situation... do some research on France rather then just hope because one ideology suits you best.
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Metorpolitan france is Mainland france, also the data I got referred to the entire population of france, I know because I searched for it, not just metropolitan france, now if you can show me that all of france has lower life expectancy than the US, then I would love to see it.
Well if you can show that they are worse off in spite of their education then go ahead, i'm always open to new evidence, show me the more information you have.
Poverty tends to be trapping whether or not your are in a nation with socialized nets or not, just look at the appalaichian area and other rural areas where poverty persists in the United states across generations.
Ok, then feel free to show me the information that I am lacking
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I... already have?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Note... non metropolitan areas of france have a lower life expectancy, as does metropolitan from the numbers your quoting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4399748.stm
See past article of people not having jobs with their degrees.... or just this one.
5% of French with degress. Which when you consider the 8.8% unemployment... really paints an odd picture there doesn't it.
26% of those from North Africa with college degrees are out of work.
Who you know matters even more.
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I didn't use wikipedia, if you'll notice my figure is different than wikipedia's, so you still haven't shown me that my figure is only metropolitan, or that the US has higher life expectancy.
Also the figures you are listing are for college graduates, not those advanced degrees, my point was about advanced degrees, even in the US you'll find college grads without jobs, currently college grads, between the ages of 20-24 have 7.7% unemployment in the US, but a college grad is not a doctorate or an MD. So you still haven't shown that my point was wrong about having advanced degrees and being able to find a job.
Ah finally you show something to back up one of your claims, ok so according to BBC its 9.2 for those of french origin and 14% for those who are immigrants, ok, i'll grant you its an issue you're right on that. Ok, so so far you've supported one of your arguments, that those who are immigrants to france are worse off than those who are not immigrants, now, can you link that to the social safety nets? Because just saying its a racial issue is not enough to say that its because of the safety nets.
So i'm still waiting on that extra information that will prove your point about the flaws of social nets, because so far you've only shown that the racial problem is such that it affects even in spite of education, fair enough, but that alone is not an indictment of the nets.
