Rise of atheism: 100,000 Brits seek 'de-baptism'

[Sqrl]

ManusJustus said:

Sqrl said:

On the issue of god and meaning in life: As you said, at the end of your life (ie your death) in religion you "continue on to something else". As "something else" it is clearly not life, in fact you will recall the term "afterlife" which specifically refers to life after death as opposed to just life.  The concepts are not the same.

Additionally, you didn't address the issue of inventions having meaning here on earth but instead only repeated their lack of heavenly importance.  Even if we accept that this idea (ie being alive in heaven) is valid it still doesn't address why these inventions would lack importance here and now.  These inventions and noble deeds make life here on earth better and thus clearly have importance and meaning to those that benefit from them.  Their assumed lack of heavenly value (which again is an assumption as neither of us have reliable knowledge of heaven) does not diminish their earthly value and there your argument falls flat.

You also assume that god having discovered something before someone makes any future discovery meaningless.  But the act of discovery is not the meaningful bit, it is the act of sharing the knowledge that gives meaning to the discovery and its process.  If you knew the secrets of the universe but cannot share or reveal them to anyone, that would actually be very meaningless.  It could be argued that it might have meaning to that individual but it would quite obviously be meaningless to others and thus it is the same for knowledge god may have that we are unaware of.  The only thing god having found knowledge first would ruin is those wishing to discover things first.

Your idea of prayer is ridiculous.  I'm not going to argue it anymore since the word 'pray' itself means to ask for something.  If you have issues with this take it up with Webster.

In religion, you go from life to afterlife and in doing so carry your life experiences with you.  The word afterlife implies that life has no end, there is something after it, which is precisely what I am getting at.

Yes, if I discover something that has been discovered before or there is no use for, it is practically meaningless.  If I discover a method of limiting CO2 output from burning fossil fuels, then I go to the media or a company and tell them about it and find out that it has already been discovered and is already being used, then my discovery was meaningless.

In Heaven there is no use for innovation or improvement.  There is no reason to invent a new method to provide energy, or invent a new drug, or to try to answer the mysteries of science, or champion a social or political cause, because nothing you do matters.

I don't see why you can't understand what I wrote.  I don't disagree that prayer is asking for something.  Try re-reading everything I written here on the subject and notice that it is the expectation that it must be fulfilled that makes your initial statement incorrect.

On the issue of discovering that someone else has beaten you to a discovery you fail to note the difference and the flaw in your logic.  In your example someone else has found and shared the discovery, as far as I know god has not shared all of his discoveries with us.  As I said it is that act of sharing the discovery that gives it meaning, not simply discovering it and being unable or unwilling to share it.

Your last paragraph is a logical contradiction, specifically it begs the question.