Rise of atheism: 100,000 Brits seek 'de-baptism'

[Sqrl]

ManusJustus said:

Sqrl said:

This is one of the most incoherent and ignorant posts on these issues I've seen in a long long time, and I'll explain why:

Incoherent because you never actually explain why god existing would necessarily mean it doesn't matter. For instance, how is it any different with or without a God that interacts on on the level that we have now (ie not much at all)? Why does it necessarily "not matter" when god exists?

Ignorant because religious people don't actually expect god to give them anything, they merely draw personal strength from their own belief.  It's interesting that you use a morale equivalence which indicates that you see a lack of self-reliance as a negative thing (and I agree with you on that) but justify your promotion of non-self-reliance by government intervention to yourself by trying to argue that other positions are "no worse" or "the same thing".

In reality you won't find a single major religion that actually believes that god will provide for their follower's mortal needs, but that their community of believers can do good deeds in god's name.  In short its the idea that "god works through good people", and the key here is that it is people who are working, not god.  In fact by all accounts the focus of god's direct efforts are almost exclusively on their immortal needs as viewed through their beliefs. So there is really no comparison to be made here whatsoever to justify your "it's no worse" argument. 

If that was the most ignorant post you have ever seen, you did a great job of trying to better it.

If God exists then many of our actions dont matter.  If I do a gret and noble thing, such as develop if I develop a life improving drug and give it to everybody on Earth, with God it wouldnt much matter because the same end result would occur.  Furthermore, if I develop a new innovative technology or discover a new physical law, none of this will matter because there is no use for such things in Heaven.

"Religious people dont expect God to give them anything" is probably the most stupid quote I have ever heard.  Have you ever hear of prayer?  Its where people pray that God will help them with a disease, finances, or even a sporting event.  Even the most humble of prayers, asking God for religious guidance, is done so that the person can have a better chance of gaining eternal paradise.

 

The term ignorant does in fact apply to your post and in fact your views on this issue by your own admission, but you should note I use the term by its actual definition before you get too worked up.  Your interpretation of what prayer is is proof enough that you lack information.  This concept of prayer as a literal request with an expectation of entitled fulfillment is woefully inaccurate to put it mildly.

People who sit around waiting for god to show up and do things for them wait a very long time, and no religion actually advocates this idea which is truly where your argument stumbles.  There may be misguided followers who would follow this indolent path to failure and then look to place the blame for their failure anywhere but themselves but if you intend to hold up these people as an example you should note that your original argument was a broad one and focused on god and thus religion as whole, not individuals who fail to exercise free will.  Sorry but prayer is quite clearly not a valid comparison to the government intervention you support and therefor your statement in your prior post is incorrect.

On the issue of why life would be meaningless your reply is no more coherant than the last post.  Why do you believe that noble acts and inventions are meaningless?  Could it be because you are making assumptions about what god's existence would mean?  For instance you assume that if you fail to invent something it means someone else will simply do it.  What is this assumption based on?  You also assume that inventions and discovery are without purpose if god exists because of their assumed lack of importance in heaven.  Aside from the assumption of no heavenly importance you ignore that they could and likely would still have significant earthly importance.  It's also interesting that you lumped in heavenly importance as part of a reply to explain a lack of importance specifically in life, in heaven you are dead so this line of reasoning is inherently faulty.

So again I ask, what about the existence of god necessarily makes life meaningless?