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Kasz216 on 19 June 2009
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Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
The problem with long-term is it can be defined in so many ways, 15 weeks, 12 months, which is why I ascribe to Keynes who said in the long run we are all dead.

Also it doesn't really change my point regardless of what measure you use for long term, since either way in france the govt bankrolls the unemployed

And it works out very poorly.

Why?  The system gives the poor a lot for free.... but the poor don't really end up owning anything.  Families on welfare STAY on welfare, because they can't dig themselves out of the hole... because they get welfare and they can't get jobs to build up money to build up wealth to get out of their holes.

There is too great of a stigma to being out of employment for even a lot of the smaller jobs out there.

Nevermind the fact that their budget deficit makes ours look great... outside of possibly this stimulus spending.  Not sure what that'll due to our debt vs GDP.  They should technically be kicked out of the EU.  But then again countries like Belgium were let in.

(Oh and before you throw back numbers without knowing the meanings... the US actually measures it's government debt different then France.)

 

Public debt in France is 63.9% of GDP as of 2007 ours was 60.8% as of 2007 this is using the CIA sourcebook as reference, to avoid the comparison issues you brought up, not a huge size difference considering.

Even in the US, the poor tend to stay poor, even without welfare assistance, its not like most are able to pull themselves out of being poor, so I fail to see what support you have to your argument that if we don't keep them on Welfare, things will improve for them, more than likely it will probably worsen during economic downturns and not get much better during upturns

The situation isn't nearly as bad upword mobility wise in the US. 

The proof is in... well france.  If you think France is a country that's doing AOK... I don't know what to tell you... it's not.  It's got tons of problems stemming from it's political dealings, including it's racial problems.


Additional as External Debt is concerned

Frances's External Debt: 4 Trillion, 

France's GDP, 2.56 Trillion.

 

US External Debt: 12.25 Trillion

US GDP: 13.84 Trillion.

 

See the difference now?

 

We rarely go that overbudget... only in times of war and economic crisis.  They do regularly.

Additionally we'd have to go even more overbudget to put into effect the France stuff... afterall France just shows how socialised Saftey nets as currently designed do not work on large scale nation.

Imagine the scale of the US.  I'd be even worse.