Jrpg vs. wrpg

[Citan]

StanGable said:

Citan said:

slowmo said:
I finally realise what Citan believes now, he thinks a good story must be a derivavtive of other stories and include references to other works.....

Honestly Citan you're not helping yourself here, a good story should be able to stand on its own two feet. A game is designed to be played by the masses (or it usually is for business reasons), when you look upon a story in this regard it should be accessible to most individuals without them having a requirement of the supposed deep psycological undertones.

A game like Braid had practically no story yet is more thought provoking than any JRPG or WRPG imo, this is why the basic premise of a story having to be complex or deep to be considered great is stupid. You're playing games, not some lecture on the human condition, sure its easy to put talking points in your game for cheap headlines but that doesn't guarantee a great result.

Mass Effects story is very good because despite the non linear play of the game and the multiple outcomes for the story it actually feels almost seemless. At one point in the game you have the choice to commit genocide on a species, if thats not a thought provoking topic enough for you then I don;t know what is. Genocide is considered one of the most hideous crimes to most humans yet this game actually seriously challenges you to consider the option, might I add in my experience I seriously considered the ramifications at the time.

I maybe should have posted more politely in this regard earlier but I do not take accusations of being not "well read" as being particularly complimentary Citan. Can you not see how your attitude came across as condescending hence my earlier response?

Finally, I honestly meant what I said earlier regarding the JRPG genre becoming stale, if change doesn't happen it will die completely and this is not something I want to happen. JRPG's are becoming a niche market not because gamers don't want the genre, it's becomes the games are becoming predicatable to the majority of gamers.

I just learned that me have an intertekstual refernce to shakespear, so there goes one of your arguments.

A story can`t stand on it`s own. A story alwyas use something from a different story. Always.

Still I haven`t said that me have a bad story. I said that Xenosaga is way beyon.

Let`s agree that thought provoking is good for the story, shall we?

 

Actually Citan, slowmo is a 100% correct. I don't know if ME has any references to Shakespeare, I was using that as an example.

Huh? A story needs to stand on its own? How`s that possible? Can you tell me a story not based on anything?

By the way, did you read my last response to you explaining why the references in Xenosaga makes the story good?

So you lied to me? I really had hopes for mass effect fora short while there!

 

 

Found the last reply :)

No, you're not understanding. You point out at novels and claim that they in fact make Xenosaga better. What you're failing to do is explain how those novels are being used and why are they so important to the characters and the overall enjoyment of the storyline.

Basically I can say that Mass Effect derived from all the novels written by Shakespeare, one of the most well known and respected novelist of all times. In fact, I will go as far as to say that the main character in Mass Effect is based on Macbeth and by default I now can claim Mass Effect is better.

Also, whether or not Xenosaga's storyline was inspired by these works it still failed to lure the critics into immersing themselves with the plot. When you can get sucked into a story like that then you have a winning theme. Guess what? Xenosaga failed at it. Most critics thought the story was good but confusing, never being outsanding or memorable. Even you claim that the reviewers don't understand the story. Then we can conclude the developers failed at transitioning what they wanted to narrate to the player.


Oh, sorry. I didn`t understand, so I`ll try to explain in my not so very good english.

As a well read person seeing all these references makes the game really exotic if I may use that word.

Example:

The aliens called Gnosis means spirtual knowledge used in the religion Gnostitism.

They`re transparent bodies referes to the spiritual, something out of reach.

In the Bibel Lots wife becaomes salt when she`s turns around to see Sodoma beeing destroyed.

In the game Gnosis is built by salt.

The conforntation with these mosnsters in the game is about humans will to confront the forbidden.

 

But for the simple eye, they are just plain aliens we want to kill.

 

If this doesn`t make a game more interesting, I don`t know what will. But there are so many intertekstual references,

your eyes would bleed if I were to write them all down, and it would take one week.

This game is better if you`re well read. And beeing well read is not a bad thing, is it? No, it`s good.

Therefor it makes the game/story better.

 

Me have one intertekstual reference to shakespear. GREAT. But could the creators make more references to make the game more

interesting and not make a mess out of it? Probably not, because western culture stops it.

 

I totally agree that the critics weren`t lured. It failed as a game to the masses, but a perfect game for those interested in culture, society, philosophy, interpretions, religion, action, drama, love, hate, friendship, science fiction and so on.

Tetsuya Takahashi made this game because it was his dream to create a complex story, and he succeded , but it ain`t a game for everyone. Just the few well read people, which are very good to be.