So who's going to win The NBA Finals?

[rocketpig]

Kasz216 said:

rocketpig said:

Kasz216 said:

Also, if big men are more valuable... they're better players. If when building a team you would rather have Shaq in his prime then Kobe.... Shaq is the better player.

If you judged how good they were by adjusting for position some Place Kicker might be the best kicker in the NFL... or you could make an arguement that Spud Webb was the greatest ever because he did so well being so short.

Guys like Shaq are rarer, not necessarily better. The point is that you can find a "good enough" shooting guard to go alongside a big man while it's harder to find an effective center to go with a great guard.

You have to adjust for position. Removing position from the argument makes no sense whatsover. You can't judge a player without considering position, length of time played, and his contemporaries.

Guys like Shaq are rarer?  No.  They're just more valuable.  Great Shooting Guards are rarer.

There are more great Centers then there are Shooting Guards.

You've got Jordan in one tier.  West and Byrant in a second tier... then George Gervin in a third... then who?  Allen Iverson? 

Now great Centers... you can name tons.  Kareem, Shaq, Russel, Wilt, Olajuwan....

There are tons of Centers at the top of their game in comparison.

You would take Shaq over Kobe.  You would not take Shaq over MJ though.

If a shooting guard isn't as important as a center then the shooting guard is going to have to be a hell of a lot better then the center to be considered a better player.

Nobody is going to argue that Adam Vinatari is more valuable then Tom Brady because Vinatari is better at his position then Tom Brady is as it his.

This is where I really disagree. How many centers have put up Shaq's numbers? 2? 3? And the rest aren't even close to his dominance during his prime. With centers, you pretty much have to eliminate anyone who played pre-1970 because they simply wouldn't cut it as a center in today's game. Hell, many would have a hard time playing power forward in today's NBA. It's almost like comparing a deadball player to a modern MLB hitter. It just doesn't make sense given the huge differences in the game.

Whereas when you look at shooting guards, there are loads of them who put up great numbers not that far behind guys like Kobe and Jordan. Just today, you have guys like Wade and McGrady who are just close enough talent-wise to make the difference negligible. Back in the day, you had guys like Drexler who filled the same role. Which is why I'd take the center first over almost any guard, even some of the best guards ever like Kobe.

Even Jordan had a hard time winning without a competent big man.