Project Natal Exercise Video could be the killer ap

[ironman]

Khuutra said:

ironman said:

Khuutra said:

The problem with reductio ad absurdum arguments is how easy they are to screw up.

Case in point: one cannot compare a "hammer" to a "computer" in the context of the argument I'm making, which is that different technological means that achieve the same ends cannot necessarily be said to be more or less advanced than one another if they do not use the same means to achieve those ends. A hammer cannot be said to be more or less advanced than a wrench, nor can a pair of pliers be said to be more or less advanced than, say, a nutcracker.

The idea of something being more advanced because it can "do things that [blank] can't" is equally absurd: it's like saying the Wright brothers plane is more advanced than a hydrogen cell automobile because it can fly while the hydrogen cell automobile cannot.

Further than that, the WM+ is capable of functions that Natal isn't capable of, either, including operating as a more sensitive tilt sensor (we've seen nothing that suggests Natal is particularly capable of this, much less as sensitive as the Wii remote), providing tacticle feedback,  and incorporating buttons so that different gametypes can be experienced without extra hardware. It's true that the Wiimote can't recognize when I'm frowning at it, as I may do, but it is also true that Natal has no way of telling when I'm trying to pull a trigger, or press the gas in a car, or change the angle of a camera.

I cannot see a reasonable argument for Natal being more advanced - it is just different.

And, you fail.

The fact that you are trying to use the Write brother's plane vs, a hydrogen powered vehicle, is just sad. Thats compairing apples to oranges. Here, however, we are compairing two similar items, in the way that they are both used to controll games. So I think the more realistic argument would be, what is more advanced, the gasoline powered car? Or the hydrogen powered car. Both of these are meant to move the average consumer in a relativly cheap and fast way. The fact that NATAL deletes the need for a waggle device completely tells me that it is a true advancement, and thus it would be synonomous to the argument I listed above in the way that the hydrogen powered car would render the gasoline powered one obsolete.

Further than that, NATAL is capable of eliminating the need for a Wiimote. You don't need a tilt sensor (it sees you move, it sees you "tilt"), buttons (instead of pressing a button to jump, just jump), and if you truly need that "tactical" feedback, then you can use a prop, just scan it. Can you imagine playing Halo 3 where master cheif could fire 50 cal bullets out of a nerf gun with high accuracy?  

Actually, you're quite wrong: both a plane and a car are just a means of conveyance. The fact that a plane can fly and a car can only roll is the point, here. The car vs. plane argument was not meant to be an exact comparison anyway; mine was the reductio ad absurdum argument, in this case. The claim that extra function makes something more advanced is inherently fallacious, and you are not doing well in avoiding this point.

"Deletes the need for a waggle device"? Really now. It has already superceded the need for buttons, the ability to tilt, and the need for tactile feedback to make controls either precise or meaningful. I would love for you to show me the proof of concept on that one, because if you don't - well, I think you know what GIF I'll pull out.

The NATAL has not yet demonstrated itself as being sensitive enough to detect slight tilts in the way the Wiimote can.

It has no shown itself capable of doing simple things like simulating the experience of driving a car - where's the gas pedal? More, if you need to jump in order to jump, you're excluding every single person who can't jump, and you're opening a whole can of worms in that game design needs to be either limited in such a way that people with more common disabilities can still use it, or leave out a sizable demographic of gamers. Even deeper - well, you still haven't shown how you can pull a trigger.

The NATAL is very neat. I look forward to seeing it demo'd with software that will show off its capabilities. But so far all we've seen is a shaky proof of concept that, while conceptually impressive, was underwhelming on a practical level. There's a reason some are callign it "full body waggle".

And no, I can't imagine buying a video game and then having to use props for it. That would be completely absurd, and considerably increase the cost of a hobby that is already expensive enough.

These are some very silly arguments you are making.

Where to begin? Well, Once again, your silly argument fails in that, you are still not seeing the point I am making I don't know how many times I must rehash it. How many times I need to repackage it before you understand, but I will try again. 

Your argument about the car and plane are completely irrelevant here, we are still comparing gaming devices with motion control, used on consoles, to play video games are we not ?  A car, and a plane are very different, their only similarities are that they both hold passengers, and they move people, and even those, in most cases are a huge difference. To put your argument in gaming terms, you are compairing a computer mouse with a gaming controller, both can be used to play games, but are for completely different applications. Have I made this clear yet? Or shall we have another go?

Yes, NATAL deletes all need for a controller of any kind or a gaming remote. What do you usually use buttons for? Every single application for a button can be acted out by YOU. As far as being tacticle, how the heck is using a Wii mote any more tacticle, there is no resistance there, save the weight of the waggle wand, and even that is negligable. On the trigger point, well anybody with common sence could detract from what MS has said thus far, that it will be possible. After all, they did say that YOU are the controller, to give you a waggle would destroy the very essence of their add campiegn, and they did say that they were working on COD and HALO for NATAL. Lastly, I did say on earlier posts (several times I believe) that all games created to work with NATAL should also work with the origional 360 controller. But you obviously didn't read that. 

 

I think this video, (which you obviously didn't see) answers your silly gas pedal question since it shows somebody driving a car (even shifting). It also should be a sufficiant reply to your "it needs the ability to tilt" statment, after all, a person can be see at the end of the video surfing movies on netflix with the flick of a wrist. Also, near the middle of the vid, a girl grabs a dress from a menu and puts it onto her avitar. She grabbed it! need I say more? 

So basically, your arguments are VERY shaky. Mine, I actually have facts to back them up and not speculation.