Rath said:
Tyrannical said:
You're right, dead right. But dead just the same if you can't get the information out of them.
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Seriously? You're fearmongering, one of those people who make out terrorism to be a bigger threat than it is just so things like torture of detainees can go ahead. Chances are well and truly against me you or anybody on this forum ever dieing of terrorism, whether we torture people or not. Is it worth throwing away the rights that actually make the Western countries better nations to live in just to have a minutely increased chance of foiling a terrorist plot?
Is it really fear mongering? At any given time there are hundreds of terror cells in the US or around the world. It's not about a few thousand people losing their lives due to Terrorist attacks. It's the constant threat and paranoia that it creates. (See Israel on a daily basis). It's the devastation of public confidence . (How much money was lost as a result of 9/11, look it up). Our Airline industries still haven't fully recovered from that.
Saying that we're all going to die if we don't use torture? Yeah I think thats fearmongering mate.
Also I'm in complete agreement that terrorism is a terrible thing that causes a loss in public confidence and causes threat and paranoia. However the only thing that sets the USA apart as a 'free country' is its human rights and throwing some of the most crucial of those away as the result of terrorism seems to be both irrational and defeatist.
@Rpruett. Yes so holding men indefinately and torturing them isn't breaching their right to habeus corpus or a trial at all now is it?
Depends on the circumstances of their capture. I'm not the one using the broad brush. You are.
If they have information that deals with national security of citizens of this country? We have a right to know what it is and stop something of that nature from occurring within reason.
I'm using a broad brush because human rights are a fairly broad thing. There is a reason the most important document relating to human rights is titled 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights' because they are meant to be universal. So no, I don't believe that you have the right to torture innocent people (or people who have not been found guilty of any crime) because there is a slim possibility that it could prevent a terror attack. In my opinion the 'in reason' in your post stops before torture.
Edit: Also I'm not an American and I'm definately not pro-constitution =P. Its just that the right wing of politics generally justifies itself by going on about how it is pro-constitution and then ignores the bill of rights half the time.
Both sides of the aisle are hypocritical and contradict themselves. This isn't a Right wing phenomenon.
Of course its not, but this little bit of hypocrisy is relevant to this debate. If you're going to point out any that the left are guilty of that are relevant then be my guest.
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