mrstickball said:
And I agree that the churches can, and should, demand the government stop taxing people claiming a specific faith. It saddens me that European 'Christians' (I wonder if I can call them that, even) would allow such a thing to happen. I'm not saying it's a government conspiracy to secretly destroy the churches. But that still doesn't change the fact that the European church is so far removed from a right relationship with God, and so given into greed, that it is a self-destructive cycle...No wonder Europe is far more atheist - their churches push them to that, by forcing people to give not of a cheerful heart (as the Bible says), but a demand from government, backed by the church. That's my problem with the christian god. A god that would put people in infinite hell is no god of mine. If I met god and they verified the plan where we all go to either hell/heaven for all eternity, I'd rather go to hell and be buddies with satan than worship a god who would create hell in the first place. Also, George Carlin will be there and I want to hear his jokes about burning forever. I don't think you understand the concept of hell. Hell wasn't created as a means to torture the godless, but to separate them from God. A loving God didn't create a woeful hell. Sinful actions by Satan did. Evil, nor hell, existed before sin. Sin created a separation from a perfect God - the diometric opposite of heaven and holiness. Yet this omnipotent and all powerful God allows people he loves to suffer despite the fact that he (as he is omnipotent) has the power to show them mercy? No omnipotent and benevolent God would allow hell to exist, or at least he would not allow good people, whether they believed in him or not, to end up in it. But of course I don't think a good god would do that, I think heaven may exist in the concept of the highest spiritual plane, but I do not think hell is the only other alternative. I also don't think anyone on this earth deserves infinite hell, not even Hitler. Hitler only deserves to receive the same amount of suffering he inflicted upon the world, nothing more, nothing less. So how long of punishment does a madman that helped kill, rape, and destroy 100,000,000 lives deserve to be punished? Isn't it against the nature of your God that he should be so vengeful? I mean at least in the New Testament he is supposed to be a god of mercy and forgiveness. I think if there is an afterlife, a divine and intelligent creator would make the afterlife some kind of personal journey for each person, you know, as you sow, so shall you reap... If you dive into the idea of heaven/hell from a Christian perspective, it is somewhat based on what you said - no 2 people get the same reward or punishment. There are tiers. Read up on 'A divine revelation of Heaven & Hell' by 2 different authors that claim to of visited both places...Each have different tiers based on what they did, and if they knew God or not. Actually I'm pretty sure every different Christian sect has a different idea of what heaven and hell mean. How is it fair that believing a ressurection in a book that undecernable from fiction, having faith, are god's requirement for getting into his special afterlife called heaven? That's not fair, it doesn't make sense. Even when I was a christian I though belief was bullshit, I thought atheists who were good people received equal rewards and punishment for the rights and wrongs commited in this life. I didn't think god was a cunt, I thought the bible was highly altered and had many evil mens wills pushed upon it. I still think the bible is highly altered but the difference now is I don't think it's from a divine source. The issue is that morality, although is part of God, is not the prequisite of being with God. Having a relationship with God gets you to heaven...Morality is the extention of that relationship with God, and godly living. Maybe it's just me, but it's illogical to expect for someone to go to a place that they deny exists, and have a relationship with a God they rejected during their life. But there are evil people who believe in a fear god and good people who do not believe in him. It is not the actions of a benevolent god to cast people into hell simply because they did not believe he exists. In fact somebody who did good in their life without the prospect of the afterlife (and hence no selfish motivation) is arguably a better person who only did good for rewards after their death. Morality does not come from god, it comes from yourself. The bible makes no sense... How does Jesus dying on the cross make up for a believers sin? I do not consider that balance. I consider it injustice. Even if I accepted Jesus, how would it be fair for me not to receive the exact same amount of suffering or harm I inflicted upon the world? I think if there is an fair and just afterlife from a good god, everyone pays for all harm they inflicted, and gets rewarded for all good deeds. Jesus' death on the cross bridged the gap between God and man. Before Jesus died, sacrifices had to be made, and superficial laws had to be kept to a T. Jesus did away with that. The problem is I don't know if the afterlife is fair or if god is good. God could be a cunt like the bible shows, but what's the use of believing in that? I'm an optimist not a pessimist, and the message from the christian bible isn't exactly optimistic, fair, or logical. Argue as you like, but some of us think that the 1 in 250,000,000,000 chance that life randomly appeared is kind of illogical. And there is a 1 in a billion trillion googolplex chance that god exists. Oooh I can make up probabilities as well. Burning infinite hell for finite suffering caused? How's that fair? Infinite separation of from God. You assume that all hell is, is a magical lake of fire for eternity...Not quite the way some that have claimed to be there, have described it. And quite the way some who have claimed to have been there describe it. Of course I think everyone who claims to have been there is either delusional or lieing. Blissful infinite Jubilation in heaven for people who simply repent and put faith in a book, or put faith in the concept of a man who rose from the dead? How's that fair? Infinite life with a God they accepted. Why should someone go to a place they rejected, and not believe in? Because they are a good person and your God is apparently all powerful, all knowing, kind, merciful and loving? I think being a good hearted, happy, and logical person is what matters most in life most. IF there is an afterlife, it's based on those factors, not faith or your religious denomination, because faith and religion are culturally instilled nonsense. If there is a god they understand people with religion views, and maybe said god tries to reach people through their religion? I don't know. Some religious people seem connected to a divine source, some seem bat shit crazy. That's your opinion. Not neccesarily the views of an almighty God. There are some things we cannot assume to assertain in this life. But the base issue is that you either accept God, or reject God in life. Regardless of what you say, your rejecting God. How is it logical that you can have communion with him because you hated the idea of him in this life? All I've seen you spew on the forum is wrath and anger toward God. Why is it, then, that your other actions should give you a free pass? Wrath and anger towards God or towards his followers? Some of his followers are a pretty shitty bunch. Its kind of like how Monty Python were originally going to mock Jesus in The Life of Brian but decided he was actually a pretty nice guy so they mocked his followers instead. |
