I am a liberal and I'm proud

[Kasz216]

Rath said:

Kasz216 said:

That's the Authortarian part.

It's also wrong.

As the people being taxed at a higher percentage will largely feel put opon... as they are being put opon... and the poor are taught the rich are greedy etc.  Hence people who make more money and are taxed progressivly are bad etc.

It also places central focus on the government to get things done so people look to the government to handle things, rather then everyone working for the good of the common man.

Instead, everyone works... and the government takes care of the common man.

This can be seen by the fact that more conservative people give more to charity.

If you were a starving person in the street, you would be more likely to get money to buy yourself something to eat from Dick Cheney then you would Al Gore... and that's saying something considering one of Dick Cheney's past times is shooting people in the face.

Progressive taxation never leads to the Utopian state because the people constantly need to lean on the government to make things right.  People never reach a stage where they actually believe everyone should be treated equal... instead it's just one group picking on another group to get what they want.  It's no different then anything else.

The true step right before an Utopian society that he's longing for is one in which the government exists... but it's taxes are paid soley by donation.  Such a society needs people willing to think of others nearly as much as themselves.  Such a society can not be gotten to by forceful means as everyone will develop resentments.

 

 

And I'd argue that relying on the good of common man is stupid because the common man isn't good enough. In my opinion its impossible to reach a utopia where the poor are given a hand by the rich out of the good of their hearts simply due to the nature of mankind.

Maybe thats where our difference in views is.

Then Utopia in your view is unreachable. 

Which is partly my point.  He believes it is reachable... yet acts in a way that prevents it from being reachable.

While you, like most liberals actually believe... is that people don't want to look after each other and largely have to be forced to be by the government via taxes.  People can never get to where they will.... so we must enforce it as so by progerssive taxation.

Most people agaisnt progressive taxation actually agree with you.  What they disagree with however is that government should enforce this... because governent is also run by people.... and it's not run by the most morally upright people or the smartest.  It's run by the comman men who want power a little more and are willing to go to extradonary ways to get there.

Where your opinion differs from mine however is that I believe in is that all people deserve to be treated equally and that things such as universal healthcare can in fact be achieved by treating everyone equally... the government just needs to be smart rather then target random groups for taxation so they can give deals to different people and buy themselves power. 

Flat taxation will make sure tax raises are only made when needed.  Rather then villifying different groups and items to get money.

People who no longer need to struggle and are largely unthreatened are more likely to give themselves to the thoughts of "higher pursuits".

Whether or not anyone could ever get to a stage where an actual Utopia exists is argueable.  However why not give it a chance in a way where everyone will be treated equally?

Rather then attempting a hand fisted force that has a chance to turn into a Dystopia whenever some extra ambitious polticians come into office and realize they control just about everything.

We don't need to force people to give more then their fair share to get things done.  That's just what politicans say because they don't want to make the hard decisions and instead want to just maintain their power base as long as they can.