I am a liberal and I'm proud

[Kasz216]

SciFiBoy said:

Kasz216 said:

SciFiBoy said:

my views are not crazy at all, to me they make sense, im in favour of a socialised healthcare and education system, like we have here in the UK now (Only i think they can be improved upon) and Proggressive taxation (ALOT of Liberals are in favour of PT, ive even been to talks about it) i like the idea of Utopia and think it should be the ultimate goal of humanity, i dont think thats crazy, i think it makes sense, i accept that we arent there yet, but i think my ideas would help get us as close as is possible in the modern world, my other views are very commonplace as well, im Pro-Choice, Anti-Death Penalty, Pro Seperation of Church and State, Pro Legalisation of Drugs, Pro-Euthanasia, Pro-Welfare State and more that i cant think of at this precise moment, im not Crazy, im just Very Liberal and im a Socialist, so are many people, is it my fault that there either not on these forums or they dont want to debate you?

1) Not a good arguement.  Even crazy peoples views make sense to themselves.

2) Which Utopia?  There are many different kinds. 

3) Pro Progressive taxation isn't a part of any of the Utopian societies i've ever seen presented.  They're either "No money at all" and you just work the jobs you like.... or "Libretarian Utopia" where there are little to no taxes.

1. Ok, thats fair enough, lol, but that said, how do you know your not the crazy ones?

2. probably whichever one is closest to my own views

3. you really dont ever read all of my post do you?

"i accept that we arent there yet, but i think my ideas would help get us as close as is possible in the modern world"

maybe you should read that part again

 

Except Progressive Taxation actually does the exact opposite.

The basis of any Utopion society is an enlightened people.

Progressive Taxation retards the sense of good will being the responsibility of the person and places the burden on the state.

As such, people would never get to the state where they beleive that the rich should give more for the common good.  Instead the view that the government should take more from the rich for the common good prevails.   A very different and very important distinction.

For an egalitarian utopia to work... the rich need to give more, not have more taken from them since the ultimate goal would be to mimimize government because everyone would belive this.

The rise of authortarain socialism was in response to the belief that the rich would never become enlightened.  Which seems to be a view you hold, yet claim to not be an authortarian liberal.

Marx however would of never forseen capitalism, upward mobility and just how generous people have gotten since. 

People are on the right steps towards it... but progressive taxation and your attempts to force your ideals through govenrment and forcing on a minority of the majority rather then true ideal and change through enlightenment.

In reality you would be more likely to create a dystopia.

The belief that people can grow into what would be needed to form a true utopia needs to allow for people to grow into those people.  Trying to force the matter can't work.