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pearljammer said:
thanny said:
 

just adding to this.... God is all about people loving him and worshipping out of their own free will (except from a Calvanist perspective). If God just revealed himself clearly and openly to every person in the world including those who didnt ask, everyone would have no choice but to worship him and accept that he is real. This eliminates the 'free will' part of it...

No it doesn't. It still doesn't mean that one would worship god simply out of knowledge that he exists alone. For one, I'd have to be convinced that I agree with his teachings.

The one thing for me, personally, that has always bugged me about the christian faith is that god is incredibly insistant that we love him, of our own free will mind you, yet if we do not we are banished to an unimaginably harsh eternity. That doesn't seem like something I'd love willingly even if I knew of its existance. Loving out of fear of consequence is not really love at all. Now, I don't mean to say that there are none out there who genuinely love your god, I'm just trying to say that this doesn't exactly cry benevolence.

So yes, I would acknowledge him as my creator, but nothing more if those were truly his teachings.

That's my problem with the christian god. A god that would put people in infinite hell is no god of mine. If I met god and they verified the plan where we all go to either hell/heaven for all eternity, I'd rather go to hell and be buddies with satan than worship a god who would create hell in the first place. Also, George Carlin will be there and I want to hear his jokes about burning forever.

But of course I don't think a good god would do that, I think heaven may exist in the concept of the highest spiritual plane, but I do not think hell is the only other alternative. I also don't think anyone on this earth deserves infinite hell, not even Hitler. Hitler only deserves to receive the same amount of suffering he inflicted upon the world, nothing more, nothing less.

I think if there is an afterlife, a divine and intelligent creator would make the afterlife some kind of personal journey for each person, you know, as you sow, so shall you reap...

How is it fair that believing a ressurection in a book that undecernable from fiction, having faith, are god's requirement for getting into his special afterlife called heaven? That's not fair, it doesn't make sense. Even when I was a christian I though belief was bullshit, I thought atheists who were good people received equal rewards and punishment for the rights and wrongs commited in this life. I didn't think god was a cunt, I thought the bible was highly altered and had many evil mens wills pushed upon it. I still think the bible is highly altered but the difference now is I don't think it's from a divine source.

The bible makes no sense...

How does Jesus dying on the cross make up for a believers sin? I do not consider that balance. I consider it injustice. Even if I accepted Jesus, how would it be fair for me not to receive the exact same amount of suffering or harm I inflicted upon the world? I think if there is an fair and just afterlife from a good god, everyone pays for all harm they inflicted, and gets rewarded for all good deeds.

The problem is I don't know if the afterlife is fair or if god is good. God could be a cunt like the bible shows, but what's the use of believing in that? I'm an optimist not a pessimist, and the message from the christian bible isn't exactly optimistic, fair, or logical.

Burning infinite hell for finite suffering caused? How's that fair?

Blissful infinite Jubilation in heaven for people who simply repent and put faith in a book, or put faith in the concept of a man who rose from the dead? How's that fair?

I think being a good hearted, happy, and logical person is what matters most in life most. IF there is an afterlife, it's based on those factors, not faith or your religious denomination, because faith and religion are culturally instilled nonsense. If there is a god they understand people with religion views, and maybe said god tries to reach people through their religion? I don't know. Some religious people seem connected to a divine source, some seem bat shit crazy.