| Sqrl said: If you can't make a logical argument for a belief it has faith as its basis |
I'm not sure that I agree that the lack of belief in something (like god) is the same thing as a belief in something. If I were to propose some completely made up fantasy creature--the Sperzitt, an eighteen-headed flying eggplant monster--and I ask if you believe in such a thing, and you say "no"... well, I'm not sure that I would describe you as "believing" something new. Or that I would insist that your lack of belief is somehow "faith-based."
But, that aside, let me construct a small scenario, touching on how I see "logic," "belief" and "faith," and maybe that will serve as a quickish answer:
Let's say that I were to look in the TV Guide and see that there's going to be a marathon of Designing Women on tonight, starting at 8pm. I would "believe" the TV Guide--I would believe that Designing Women would indeed be on at the specified time.
Now, I don't think that such a belief would require "faith" on my part. After all, I've read TV Guide in the past, and it hasn't steered me wrong; every time it's said that a television show would be on... lo and behold, it was. And based on everything I would have heard or known about TV Guide, I wouldn't suspect any duplicity on its part.
And so I would eagerly look foward to an evening with Delta Burke, Meshach Taylor, and the (underratedly scrumptious) Annie Potts.
But now, suppose that later on that same day, I overheard a radio commercial advertising a New Series... and--WTF--it's on the same time and station that Designing Women is supposed to be on! Ack. Crisis. I believe x to be true (Designing Women), but now there is a claim that not-x (New Series) is true.
My mind explodes at supposing x and not-x, and so I feel compelled to seek out new information, because deep down I reject the idea that x and not-x coexist. It isn't "logical."
I rush home to the TV Guide and re-examine it. And, to my shock and chagrin, I make a telling discovery: the TV Guide is from 1989. Oh yeah, I think, why in the world would anyone watch Designing Women in 2009 (Potts notwithstanding)?
The day is saved. New information has allowed me to reorder my beliefs so that now, instead of x and not-x, I have x and y.
However, if I now continued to believe that Designing Women would be on tonight instead of the New Series... I hold that that belief would be grounded in faith.
I don't know if such a scenario helps anyone to understand where I'm coming from or not, but I think it's fairly accurate in demonstrating my "beliefs on belief" in action. Now, I can go farther and really work on crafting the definitions that must gird these sorts of scenarios, but that would be a very taxing endeavor... and it's 3:30am where I am. :)
| Sqrl said: Having found no reason to believe in something is only partial logic to not believe it |
I think that "having found no reason to believe in something" is an excellent reason "to not believe it." If I must sacrifice logic to get there, or accept "partial logic," then so be it.
But I really don't think that logic is at stake, here. The way you seem to treat logic feels very foreign to me. I see logic more as an ordering tool--a way to find and root out contradiction. Whereas, it seems like you feel that every belief that a person takes on must be carefully pre-fitted into a syllogism.
|
from there it is faith that your logic and reasoning to that point had you headed in the right direction that you use to make a leap to the conclusion |
Hmm... I really don't like this sentiment at all.
It seems to suggest that, not only must a person's beliefs be strictly "based on logic" somehow (which, imo, is a different sentiment than the one I like to endorse--that beliefs "be logical," i.e., non-contradictory)... but that having beliefs "based on logic" isn't enough, because then you'll find that faith is required to trust in the results of your logic and reasoning.
Yeah, anyways, I'm sure I could go on (and on), and probably will in the future when I see the replies, but for tonight I've got to get to bed! :)
