twesterm said:
And yes, that connection I have to characters in games is greater than a Tops card. What the fuck games have you been playing to even ask something like that? Do you think every video game story and character are as "deep" as the ones in Gears of War? I mean really, the fact you even make that statement shows that you know nothing. I'm tempted to stop typing here because that was just a giant piece of fail but I like to hear myself talk and I can imagine I'm talking as I'm typing this so I will go on. And again, I ask what stops games from ever being as good as books or film? What do they lack that the other two have? You can still just as strong as narrative and characters in a game and there's no reason at all you can't. Also, lets look at this from the other side. Take FFVI for example, the story in that game is basic. Nothing special. THe thing that makes that game good is the character interaction, character development, and just becoming attached to those characters from play. Would you get that same connection from a book? Sure, you could have the same exact interaction in the games scripted sequences, but it's different in that you're not responsible for their actions. Or what about something like Bioshock? One of the truly amazing things about Bioshock is the story and inhabitants of the city get uncovered as you explore. The more you explore, the more you know. If you don't want to explore, you don't get exposed to everything. It's because of your actions that you find the story. Can a book or movie do that? So yeah, games can be just as powerful as books and movies and there's no reason to say otherwise.
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Dude, you keep showing your own lack of knowledge and your 'games are a young medium' reveals all. No game has come close, period, to the best in literature and film. Give me one game that's the equal of a Kubrick movie or a JG Ballard novel.
There are none. Bioshock is a shallow experience with a basic narrative borrowed from older games which borrowed from SF novels and film structures. It is nothing to hold up. As for characters I call BS. The closest I've felt to videogame characters is probably Ico and Yorda, but that is still nothing to the feelings the best films and books elicit.
As for talent, as I said there's plenty of great games talent - but you name me creative writing talent on even a par with average films and books?
As for your actions influencing the story - so far that's no better than the adventure books I sometimes read/played as a kid, where you picked one path and got a bit more story. Games are interactive, but so far this has been used only in the barest bones manner with regard to anything other than basic gameplay.
Again, the best interaction I've seen is Ico, the beat of Yorda's hand as you hold it was a superb little device. But interaction doesn't equal the level of characterisation a film/book can give automatically - again this is where games are terribly immature still. Ico and Yorda work well but are limited. As for games like Bioshock, its a great game, but narratively you are a walking MaGuffin who can't influence squat in the game, it pulls terribly obvious twists and its interaction with characters is limited to a few chats with someone on the other side of a piece of glass. Hell, in many ways you could argue Bioshock is a step back from the interaction of Deus Ex and the superior influence you had on the story there.
Sorry, but I'm afraid I find your points are the ones that fail. You have given zero feedback on my points to negate them other than losing your cool and repeating yourself louder.
I guess this is a sore point for you - but if you can't see how far games have to go (if they go in that direction at all) to get near film/literature levels of characterisation and narrative them I'm afraid its you that knows nothing.
Maybe you should read a little more and take in a few more films?
Also, should a mod be 'fuck fuck fucking' away like a child when his points are disputed or, heaven forbid, shot down?
You said
So yeah, games can be just as powerful as books and movies and there's no reason to say otherwise.
Are you kidding me? Or maybe you've been listen to Peter Molyneux going on (incorrectly) about how games are going to surprass films like The Godfather by 2016 and actually believe him. Clue - he's almost certainly wrong. Well, unless we continue to lower standards for literature and art by 2016 anyway.
Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...