donathos said:
And isn't that the smart thing to do? I mean, if someone said that there is "purpose" in the way the flour falls to the ground (meaning evidence of intelligence), I would expect that means that they can find purpose in it, right? To that, I would say: "Excellent! Show me the purpose you've found in the flour, so that I can see it too!" Except I find that most people who claim that there is purpose (in flour, in shuffled cards, in the universe) can't point it out very well, or explain it. Instead, they simply say that they "know" it's there, even if they can't describe it or demonstrate it, and that I should know it too... "somehow." Eventually, I come to suspect that they haven't actually found purpose in the flour... they just want it to be there very badly. And that's a position that I can sympathize with. But I cannot base my worldview or my beliefs on what I want to be true. I can only look at the flour on the floor and base my conclusions on what I see there.
If something cannot be grasped by the human mind, then we're all of us SOL, and shouldn't waste our time trying to figure it out or discuss it (because the "human mind" is the best tool that we've got). Moreover, nobody should believe it, because "believing" something without understanding it is meaningless at best, and very dangerous at worst.
That's absolutely true. But the reason we believe in smaller pieces today is because we've found them. Which is how it's supposed to work. We should believe in things after we find them--after we have evidence for them--not before. That might not be a "perfect" system, but I think it's certainly better than believing in things for which there is no evidence, or believing in things that contradicts the available evidence. Is there "purpose" in the flour? Maybe. But so far the evidence points to "no." There's no good reason to believe that there's purpose in the flour, until we have some good evidence for it.
Sure I do, based on the evidence of my senses and my ability to reason. The only way your "you don't know really either way now do you" works is if we try to discredit... everything. And if we try to discredit all knowledge, then this all becomes absolutely meaningless and silly. I mean, if one person argues for the Christian God, why can't I say to him: well, maybe you should be worshipping Zeus. I mean, you don't know really either way now do you? No. People reach conclusions based on the available evidence--that's how it works, and how it ought to work, and what this is ultimately about. I say that the available evidence says that there's no purpose to the flour, no Zeus, and no Yahweh. If you think the evidence says otherwise, please enlighten me. I'd love to know which god to worship before I die (I've heard that Hell is unpleasant). But if your point is simply that no one can ever really know anything for sure... then it's not really helpful to anyone, or in support of any point of view (not even your own). |
and this is the point where you have to just have to take it on faith, until you have it you will never understand, it becomes akin to describing the color green to someone that has never opend their eyes
"Moreover, nobody should believe it, because "believing" something without understanding it is meaningless at best, and very dangerous at worst."
Moreover, nobody should believe it, because "believing" something without understanding it is meaningless at best, and very dangerous at worst.
You can tell me how exactly a million thing s works, but since you do not know everything you cant tell me how every thing works, infact right at this moment you couldn’t even tell me how every item you interact with in your every day life works could you, from the way people operate to how the car you might drive works, but at least 90 % of those items you could figure out with the help of Google and others
How ever just b/c you might not understand how the car your driving works you still believe in the fact that it will stat up and drive, you still believe that the sun will rise and set, and you still believe that you will b alive
As humane knowledge grows we will eventually reach a point that we can say see this line here on graph page 3890 that is god, that was the right we took when we ate of the fruit and gained knowledge, some day that will happen
But until hat day his faithful will just have to operate of that, faith
And until you reach you “ohh there you are” you will not understand, you will disbelieve, and you will be intolerant in some form or another
