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gergroy on 15 March 2009
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BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:
BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:
BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:
BladeOfGod, you are completely missing the point. He is saying the PS3 is a failure for Sony, the X360 and Wii are a success for Microsoft and Nintendo respectively. It does not mean the gamers will not like the consoles. That's not what it's about. The PS3 can give a good gaming experience, so does the X360 and the Wii, the difference is that the PS3 is costing Sony money and also costing them market share, while the X360 cost MS money, but they did increase market share and now are making money too since a few months. The Wii is a big success because it always did both.

About the game sales, Sony is not selling enough games to cover all their costs. Far from it. Killzone 2 probably won't be earned back, and that's with a lot of games. Especially since Sony needs to pay devs more because of more time/resources than MS because of the harder hardware to develop for. It's simply a loss/loss for Sony. Again, that does not mean it's a loss/loss for gamers.

 

 

Well, Sony is also making money lately,and PlayStation brand made so much money for Sony so its time PlayStation to take some of it back.PS1 actaully saved Sony in 1995. Microsoft on the other hand has been loosing on Xbox since its launch, but they still made some profit lately for a couple of months. And it took them 7 years to make that small profit on xbox. I am sure PS3 will do the same but faster. Just wait. Blu ray sales have already increased for 800% in Japan, software sales have increased for 65%, Cell processor didn't even show 50% of its power, Gran Turismo 5 ( best selling PlayStation game ) its not even launched yet, PlayStation Network is growing very very fast...

 

 

Sony is not making any money "lately", at least not with the PS3. We're not talking about the brand. We're talking about the PS3 on itself, which makes the PS2 and PS1 irrelevant about they made money or not, but you can use them to compare market share. It's not about if Sony is a failure or the Playstation brand is a failure. It's about the PS3, and that means, on its own. It actually does not matter how long it took for the Xbox brand to start making money, and it does not matter that Sony made money with its PS1 and PS2. You say you are sure the PS3 will start making a profit, but faster, but you are comparing the new Xbox brand which started from scratch, to a console that already has a name for years, which is simply not fair, and not logical, because you're comparing two generations to one. If you compare only this generation, the X360 is winning for now, both for the companies as for gamers. You say playstation network is growing very fast, but there's only a peak because of Killzone 2 as of now. If the PS3 games don't get better online for ALL its games, (at least on par as KZ2) it will never catch up to Xbox Live. And PS3 as Blu-Ray player only is actually bad for Sony because they can't win the money back by selling games to those persons because they only watch movies in the first place. So yet again:

PS3 causes the next for Sony:
[wanted to maintain/increase market share] Market share down, thus income lower than expected
[wanted to sell lots of games to regain console costs]Game sales lower than expected, thus income lower than expected
Console price high, thinking people would buy it anyway, disappointment, yet still losing money per sold console
[wanted to promote Blu-Ray] Lower game sales for selling console as player only
No/negligible extra income from other uses of the console (movie renting, online etc)
[wanted advanced powerful hardware]Relatively more time/cost to produce a game

 

 

X360 causes the next for Microsoft:
[wanted to get more known in gaming market] Increased market share, aka bigger fanbase and more income and getting a well known console brand in the gaming market
[game sales to regain console costs]Game sales are over the top, thus income very high
[wanted to approach different markets on price]Console price range relatively low, thus higher sale numbers
Console mainly bought for gaming, thus costs easily earned back by games
[wanted to give outstanding online experience and support] Additional income from internet services (Xbox Live, movie renting etc.), and accessories.
[wanted to produce with relatively cheap hardware] Lots of money loss because of RROD, some reputation degrading, but relatively low to the reputation gained

And Microsoft is happy with its console. They're getting money from every side. Even though the RROD costed them almost all the money they earned, they kept their service quality high to keep costumers happy. The X360 on itself is doing everything good for Microsoft, because Microsoft already has nothing to lose. They already gained so much with this console, it just can't fail for them.

 

The bottom line is, the PS3 is not pushing Sony in the direction Sony wanted to go, and the X360 is doing that exact thing MS wanted it to do. 

Psn already has 20 million users and its only 2 years old, PlayStation Home has 2 million active users.

 

And what's so bad about PS3 online games? Tell me one 360 game which can have up to 256 players in one server? No, wait, tell me one 360 game which can have up to 64 players in one server? No, wait, tell me the name of one 360 game which can have up to 32 players in one server? Oh and you obviusly never played warhawk online.

And i am sure losing 4 billion on 360 is ''exact thing MS wanted it to do''. Microsoft may have captured bigger markeshare with 360 than Sony with PS3, but Microsoft lost a lot more money on 360 than Sony on PS3.

 

Xbox started on scratch? Microsoft spend millions on 3rd party support, adds, DLCs, stealing PlayStation exclusives...Just watch the ''History of Xbox'' on youtube and you'll see.

 

PS3 games sell lower than expected? Did  anyone expected LBP to sell over 2 million that fast? Killzone 2 sold over 1 million for only 2 weeks. Did anyone expected Resistance FOM to sell over 3 million? How about MGS4?

Oh, and i am sure Microsoft consumers are happy when they are getting their 3rd 360 fixed. i would be happy too :)

Ok, I'm getting bored of this.

20 Million users would be far from active users since the PS3 (on itself) barely has 20 million owners, and most of them don't even game online, or even game at all. That number is not realistic, and even if it's true, it would be from PSP etc also, which is not relevant for the discussion if the PS3 on itself is a failure or not.

You didn't read what i said. Sony is not making money from online. That does not mean it's bad. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And about RROD you again didn't read what i said. I'm not gonna bother replying to that at all.

You said it took 7 years for xbox to start making a profit. ANd then i said, you are comparing one console, the PS3, which already has a brand name ( from PS2 and PS1), to the old Xbox, which had to start from scratch, so it's not fair to compare them like that, and if you compare X360 to PS3 on themselves, the X360 is winning.

PS3 games are not selling anything close to PS2 games, and that's lower than expected, because Sony's arrogance bit them in their own behind.

And X360 users who got a RROD just got another console, and if it happened again, they got another one again, 3 year warranty.... And that's within 2 weeks that you get a replacement console. Some people who don't have warranty, just got out and bought another X360. That says something about the service and gaming experience Microsoft is giving. No one would go and buy a second PS3 like that, especially because of the price and also because the experience is not worth the money twice.

You know, you are pretty biased, and you like to tweak little stories to make the PS3 come out on top, no matter what, and sorry, but that's not gonna help, you won't win an argument like that against me. Keep to the matter, which is the PS3, and keep on the money either company is making, and you'll KNOW the PS3 is not doing what Sony wants it to do. For gamers, they don't really care. All they want to do is play games so the PS3 is not failure there, but for Sony, it is. Why can't you

 

 

 

LOL, i tried to sign up to PSN with PSP, it took more than 1 hour, the process is very slow, so most of people are making accounts on PS3. And you can sign up on PSN with PSP ONLY if you have the latest system update but a lot of users have hacked systems so they cant sign up to PSN.And PS3 owners DONT have to go and buy second PS3, because system is reliable.And I said microsoft MADE PROFIT ON 360 NOT ON ORIGINAL XBOX. When i said ''xbox'' i meant entire xbox brand not just original xbox. Please read carefully. I said  it took 7 years for XBOX BRAND to make profit for microsoft.

Here you can see that both Microsoft and Sony made profit from online, just microsoft made much more (since XBL is not free ):

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=62279

 

 

And i am not trying to say PS3 is on top, it obviously wont win this generation and its not doing as great as PS2 did. I am saying its not bigger failure than 360. I actually tought system with 32% of dead untis is an actual failure, but i guess i was wrong. Its far from failure for consumers and microsoft :)

 

 

 

I have to LOL at your reason why most peopel can't use their psp's on the PSN.  That may just be the dumbest reason I have ever heard, as the amount of people with hacked systems is way less than 1% of the people that own the system. LOL.

The second line that I bolded is EXACTLY what everybody has been saying, but you are trying to bring the xbox into the mix.  The reality is that the PS3 has lost almost all of the marketshare it's predecessor had.  It is also costing Sony way more per unit than the ps2 ever did.  Sony has done many things wrong this generation and has failed to attain pretty much any of their goals.  I remember the Sony reps talking about how they were going to pull ahead of the 360 by holiday 08, but that never happened.  What people are saying on here, that you are understanding, is that the ps3 is a bigger failure because they had everything going for them going into this generation.  They had the name brand, the loyal support of the customer, and the first place spot and now they are in 3rd place.  Microsoft has sold more units than the original xbox already, in half the time, that is a HUGE improvement from last generation, do you understand?  Don't talk to me about how much money they lost and how great sony's numbers are improving and all that crap that has nothing to do with this point we are trying to talk about.  Generation to generation, Microsoft has made lots of headway and have increased marketshare and brand loyalty while Sony has squandered down to nothing.  They will be lucky to hit 50 million units, thats a third the units they sold last generation.  DO YOU UNDERSTAND?  It really isn't that hard of concept to comprehend.  Nobody ,except you, is debating which system has better games or has better features.  We are merely talking about marketshare.