Gay Rights - Why is this an issue?

[appolose]

The_vagabond7 said:

akuma587 said:

The_vagabond7 said:
See akuma, you're speaking a different language now. Your morality and his do not coincide, so when you say "This is why this is right" and it makes perfect sense to you, is complete nonsense to him.

He's a moral objectivist that believes that only christians can be morally objective, and so if you impose anything other than christianity on others you are a hypocrit because you think no moral objectivity exists and are imposing objective morality.

What I am talking about has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with social freedom.

There are plenty of things that I support as a right people can enjoy that I am morally opposed to.  The social freedom we should allow people to have is a completely separate realm from morality.  I'm not trying to combine the two, while he is.

I'm not trying to impose an objective morality as morality isn't a sound basis for what society treats as right and wrong.  It can incorporate ideas of morality, but it shouldn't be based on morality, especially when that morality conflicts with other people's rights.

So yes, society as a whole can arbitrarily decide what is right and wrong.  Is that always a good thing?  No.  Is there a better way?  Probably not.

 

 

I think that's why fundementally you are speaking a different language. From the hardcore christian mindset morality defines social freedom, there is no plurality. For you, if you dislike something you would not restrict some one else from doing it as long as it doesn't harm another and to you this is right. To a hardcore christian if somebody is doing something that they disagree with they must be stopped or else hell is a consequence. But why am I playing devils advocate so much? Especially when the figurative devil is present to speak for himself.

@ apolose

I know you're not saying he's wrong because your belief in christianity is right. I'm saying you're using reductio ad absudum to conclude that there is a contradiction and thusly the premise is incorrect. I'm saying there is no contradiction because he isn't against moral objectivity. Just because he doesn't believe in the bible doesn't mean he's a nihilist that thinks there is no such thing as right and wrong. And so my using nihilism to show why you're stance is incorrect would be just as misplaced as your attempt to do so with him is. For you Murder is absolutely wrong because the bible says so. For him Murder is wrong because it infringes on someone's right to...live I guess. He's as morally objective as you are, he's just using a different dogma as it were. There is no hypocrisy involved...unless of course you're a nihilist.

But he does say that Christians should not force their views on homosexuality, while he can force his views on anything else.  If he was saying "You can't force your views on someone because your views are wrong", then that would be something else entirely.  But I think he was simply saying "You can't force your views on someone", which would be contradictory without being nihilistic.