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windbane on 17 January 2009
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The_vagabond7 said:

Again, your view of innovation is ridiculously broad. Name me a game where you absorb souls and then assign each soul to one of four buttons so that you can summon them in the blink of an eye, each one with their own unique abilities set in the context of a celtic murder mystery. Folklore is massive innovation.

Technically yes, LBP did somethings different from others. But technically so does Deadspace which is incredibly derivative, and nobody is ever going to say that Deadspace was an innovative game. A high quality evolution of the 3rd person shooter/horror genre yes, innovative no.

LBP is at best an slight evolution of existing concepts and technology, not a revolutionary innovation that will change gaming for a generation or more.

Mario 64 created a genre, every 3d platformer for years and many to this day are just Mario 64 clones or highly derivative of Mario 64 and it's concepts and tech are used to this day. People evolved what was present in Mario 64 to modern games and tech. LBP isn't going to spawn a genre, and it's already an evolution of ideas so nobody is going to evolve LBP concepts ten years from now.

Your idea of innovation is way off, it's incredibly broad and by using your concept of innovation you can make incredibly formulaic games sound innovative. The fact that you would Say Mario 64 isn't innovative but LBP is would immidiately disqualify you from arguing anything because of the insanity of it, but since the argument is with you it persists.

 

1. Folklore was innovative, and has one of the best uses of Sixaxis with flOw and Warhawk, but there's not much that will change the genre. You are helping my point with LBP. Those abilities you assign are all very similar except that some won't work against some guys for abritrary reasons to force you to use whatever ability you get in the next area to kill the next room's guy to kill the next so you can beat the boss. Rinse and repeat. I hope that's not emulated. That's as cute as saying Too Human has 1,000,000 combinations of weapons/armor or whatever it is, when most of them don't change the gameplay. Was Folklore innovative? Yes. Was it genre defining? No.

2. Ok, deadspace wasn't innovative, even if they had some unique things like putting the health on a character's back. Not seeing how that applys to LBP, which does innovate. I would say that a Sci Fi Survival Horror is rare, though.

3. I think LBP does lead to great things. All game types should have a LBP.

4. This has been said many times before, but Mario 64 did not create a genre. Weren't you the one comparing it to Doom, which defined a genre but did not create it? Mario 64 wasn't even the first 3-D Mario Platformer!

5. I never said Mario 64 wasn't innovative, I merely compared the amount of innovation to LBP. I think they both innovated, and my earlier point was that you don't have to be the first to do a genre to innovate within it.