| Comrade Tovya said:
Well, like I said, I keeping my opinion out of my comments (as mine involves the destruction of Hamas), and I'm playing the devil's advocate. I'm simply saying that, if for arguements sake, neither Israel nor the Palestinians were to accept each other's existence (I don't believe this, but like I said, just for arguements sake), then I don't see any such plan for peace working. And of course, I disagree that a comprehensive peace can be established by Israel "taking the first step" because at this point they are already half-way down the road (a lot more than a step to say the least). So, like I said, if you are right in assuming that neither party thinks the other has a right to exist, then how can peace ever be attained in such an environment? You know what would impress me? If the Palestinians dispossessed Hamas. If they pulled that off, because the were sick of the violence, that would show me some real hope... it's not perfect, but it would show a step in the right direction. Like I said, politics aside, the unilateral withdrawl from Gaza was a HUGE first step. The next step should belong to the Palestinians... get rid of Hamas and terrorism. And then Israel would lift the air & sea restrictions, and reduce the complications at checkpoints. Hence, a lack of terrorism eliminates such needs. And more importantly for the Israeli taxpayer, these measure are damn expensive too... So, if true peace really is the goal, I think the people of Gaza need to boot Hamas out (even if it requires the military assistance of Jews to make it happen)... and then when they are gone, Israel can lift the restrictions, and as long as the Palestinians don't take advantage of the restriction lifting by commiting acts of terrorism, then there will be no reason for them anymore... Do I think this is realistic? No. But it's the honest approach. When Israel commits a military action in Gaza, they are not just deciding to do it because they have nothing better to do. They do it out of reaction to terrorism. So, the simple solution is stop the terrorism, and then there is no reason for military action. Trust me, if there is no terrorism, and the Israelis just suddenly decided to attack Gaza out of the blue just for entertainment purposes, I will be the first person in line to protest against Israeli aggression. But as long as the military action is a reaction to terrorism, then I will remain firmly in the pro-Israel camp. For a group to say, give us everything we want right now, or we'll kill you is no way to get what you are asking for. Just like when my two-year-old wants his sippy, I only give it to him if he asks politely. If he throws a fit and demands things, I ignore his request until he does it properly. It's actually one of the basic expectations we have as human beings of one another. |
oh, hypothetically saying, yes if the majority of both sides only wanted the destruction of the other then there is no way peace could happen, true.
RE: Removal of Hamas
Honestly, given the current situation on the ground (not the war, just the other normal Israeli restrictions/settlements/etc), there is absolutely now way the Palestinians will want to get rid of their only protectors, even if that protection is in reality a farce.
That would be like Israel agreeing to get rid of the IDF. It's not going to happen until they see no need to have a military option.
Woud I rather there be no Hamas military wing? of course.
RE: Bolded
What your not acknowledging is the psuedo-terrorism that happens in the territories against the Palestinians. The daily lives of a Palestinian, the extreame harsh conditions, the settlers, the IDF checkpoints, the IDF treatment, etc are the terrorism the Palestinians see.
Just because an Israeli isn't blowing himself up and getting on world wide TV doesn't negate the conditions that cause Palestinians to support Hamas' actions.
My professor for my Arab-Israeli conflict class put our discussion best when he said "Boths sides only look at thier stack of pictures. They only are capable of seeing the pictures of what the other side has done/does. Until both sides can give eachother duplicates of the pictures and realize all the wrong they are doing, there will be no peace." (paraphrased).
Not to attack you, but that is what I see you doing throughout our numerous conversations we have had. From my perspective you either choose to ignore what many of the zealot settlers and soldier do, or you are just unaware. You have sold yourself the idea that the horrible life the Palestinian lives under is a product of their own actions and as such Israel has the right to continue it. However, it wasn't but 100yrs ago when Jews lived under similar conditions in many parts of the world.
Until those living conditions change I don't see how anyone could expect a peacefull coexistance.
