Hamas legalizes Crucifixion

[mrstickball]

Avinash_Tyagi said:

mrstickball said:

Avinash_Tyagi said:
We are talking about the new Testemant Stick, also if the councils were so stringent in avoiding the pagan myths, why did they decided to stick the resurrection of christ right in the spring? When Pagans celebrate the spring? They did that at the first council of Nicea.

ExThe celebration of Easter has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of the Bible. Easter is a tradition practiced by the church, and is outside of what the Bible states about Jesus' death, burial and ressurection - since it states that it happened acccording to Jewish calendar dates, and not the Julian calendar. Jesus' death was/is attributed (as per the Bible) on the 14th of Nissan - which has absolutely nothing to do with pagan celebrations, does it?

And going back to the source of the argument - You were initally arguing that the Bible itself was incorporating pagan myths. Now you are arguing that the church celebrates specific events on pagan days - which I fully agree with. Christmas is the same way.

 

 You were asking about the councils, and trying to say that that the councils avoided anything Pagan, I was pointing out that they did not, we were not talking about the Bible at that point.

Now as for the source of the argument the argument started when I showed you that there were no first hand accounts of Jeuss, only Dubious second hand accounts and no proof he existed, something you have failed to address

Now onto your question about the issue of Pagan myths in the bible, the whole issue of virgin birth, something very prevalent in Pagan myths, and possibly derived from the beliefs of Horus

I know that the book of Issiah doesn't predate Horus, but the virgin birth of Jesus was foretold via Old Testament passages 400+ years before the claim that Jesus was born of a virign.

As for accounts of Jesus' existance - a list:

Internal, Christian, and Gnostic Documents:

• Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. You can argue which ones weren't written by second-hand accounts, but the fact is that both Mark and John remain strong possiblities of being written by first-hand accounts. John has the strongest possibility of being authored by the Apostle John. In the case of Mark, he was a disciple of Peter - who was with Jesus during his ministry
  
• Gospel of Timothy (pseudopigrapha) - some scholars have dated it as early as 50AD, putting it well within the ability to be written by a first-hand account
• According to Papias and Quadratus, 2 of Jesus' apostles were still living late into the 1st century (such as the Apostle John). Quadratus' case, he stated that 'The words of our Savior were always present, for they were true: those who were healed, those who rose from the dead, those who were not only seen in the act of being healed or raised, but were also always present, not merely when the Savior was living on earth, but also for a considerable time after his departure, so that some of them survived even to our own times' (which would be around 90-100ad).

External Authors & Works:

• Josephus' Antiquity of the Jews
• Tacitus' Annals
  
• Suetionious (ch 25 may contain a reference to Christ, but most certainly contains a reference to Christianity)
• Piliny the Younger - Book 10
  
• Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a - external source referencing Jesus' crucifiction near the Passover

Here's my line of logic in discussing Jesus, and Christianity:

It would seem that, through the sum of these given references, and their historical placement, that Christianity was a religion, practiced by people - by enough to be discussed - by 60AD. You can argue if Jesus existed, but that would cause you to have to provide a reasonable counterargument with reasonable proof (as much as the given dozen references I have concerning the existance of a man named Jesus, as well as the fact that Christianity was practiced by 60AD). Because of that, I would feel that in order to disprove Jesus, the burden of proof would be on you, not me, as I've provided multiple books, statements, and sources that say a religion called Christianity did indeed exist, and the figurehead of that religion is a man named Jesus, Yeshua, or something similar to that.

So Avinash, feel free to provide some documents around Jesus' time that refute his existance, or the existance of Christianity.