Pope: Gayness as dangerous as the rainforest being destroyed.

[appolose]

Comrade Tovya said:

appolose said:

A)  In that case, I'm going to have simply to disagree with you.  (Another one dead!)

B) RIP

C)  But you yourself said they had to meet the requirments because they would die otherwise.  Satan, being non-physical, does not have this problem.  So that doesn't mean evil cannot be in the presence of God. My apologizes for asserting myself so in this area; I don't want to come across like a Lego player telling an architect how to make a building, but  I feel the point is valid nontheless.

D) You mean, perfection as in never sinning?  Then this will probably be a divergent topic for us as well, because for the Christian, Romans (New Testament speaking) specifically says one sin equates to damnation, and no amount of works can eve redeem a person.  Old testament-wise, I'd probably take a far longer time to find that theology.

E)  Of course, I wouldn't be able to convince you of it that way; I'd first have to convince of my own position of Jesus.  So we would have to disagree on this again; I, taking the Christian position, think sacrifice is needed (for redemption).  You, at the Jewish position, do not.  But in any event, this whole time I was merely trying to establish and internally defend Christian theology, not necessarily convince anyone that is was actually true.

 

 

On (C) you are correct in asserting death for the human flesh, and the scriptures do not state the punishment of the soul... so I certainly will not speculate.

But with that being said, if for arguements sake, God can allow evil in his presence without the need for "purification" by a being in the spiritual form, that once again kills the idea that J.C. is needed for such a purpose.  Because if that person doesn't need an act of purification to stand before God, then that person can also go without the "blood of Jesus" and be with God... afterall, they are already dead, and hence do not need to purify themself out of fear of death before the almighty (they are already dead).

Long story short, the Christian idea of righteousness and the Jewish one are not in the least bit the same.

I know that it is hard to understand, but you just don't know what I know.  You were raised different than I, and of course, read a different Bible than I.  So it's something you'll probably never really understand.

You could understand, but that would require that you first learn to read the scriptures in Hebrew, and then completely forget everything that you were told growing up, and pretend like you don't know a thing... and then open up the Torah and start fresh from Bereishis 1:1 (genesis 1:1).  That's very hard to do, which is why a Christian will not do this.  It takes YEARS to learn Hebrew, and even longer to be proficient at it... and on top of this, you'd have to convince yourself that you know nothing at all, and start fresh. 

Do I think that it's worthwhile to do such?  Absolutely.  You'll be shocked at what you've been missing all these years, and really, you'll probably be angry that you had a bunch of lies shoved down your throat your whole life.

If you really do believe that you will stand before God one day, what will you do if you were wrong all along?  How will you react to God when you realize that you have been worshiping a man and not God?  Simple "faith" will not be enough to save you for blasphemy and worshiping of a false diety.

I know that sounds crazy, but Christians tell me that all the time... "If you don't believe in Jesus, you will burn in hell"

And I say to that same Christian, "You should be the one who is afraid.. for you are the one ignoring Hashem the God of creation and worshiping a man named Jesus and calling him God."  

 

On your first and second paragraphs,

You seem to think that if by being able to be in God's presence, that must mean they wouldn't go to Hell either; this does not follow.  Revelations has all people being judged in God's presence, and some are sent to Hell.  In this verse, it is clear that one can be evil and be in the presence of God, because being in His presence does not mean being saved.

Now, on the rest,

I can understand why that would probably give you the edge up, but I must disagree that that would mean you are necessarily right.  The Old Testament is filled with examples of the Israelites, who themselves were brought up in the religion, either rebelling or simply not understanding what God taught to them.

Now I am not saying that you are like that, just that's why I'm a little dubious of the argument, what with how susceptible humans seem to be to various ideologies, no matter how long they study them.

And the Christian might say to you, "You are ignoring the incarnation of God himself, and risk your soul on denying him his divinity".  I say this to illustrate that the Christian and Jew are more or less on the same starting point:  One asserts this, the other, that.