Pope: Gayness as dangerous as the rainforest being destroyed.

[appolose]

Comrade Tovya said:

appolose said:

Comrade Tovya said:

 

There was no mention of Jesus either, but that's not necessarily relevant.  In any event, as for proving that the righteous will be going to heaven; Romans 4:3 "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.'"  And then Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your hear the God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".  Therefore, faith equates to righteousness, faith leads to salvation, and, thus, the righteous are saved.   This is one example of may others (I posit).

The problem here is you assume, by God telling Satan not to kill Job, that God is merely giving Satan a command.  However, he's not saying "You won't do this, because I told you so", he saying "You won't do this, because I, being omnipotent, will prevent you from doing it".  Satan's not doing what he says out of obedience, but out of helplessness.

In any event, it's hardly playing the role of God if were just doing what we think He tells us to do.  He says go and save people, because people have sinned.  So in order to try to save a person, one would have to admit that they have sinned.  Of course I'll "pass judgement" on someone; if they do something that the Bible forbids, and if I think the Bible is true, how on Earth could I not?

 

 

No, you are missing my point... God never said that the righteous will "go to heaven".  It's just popular myth.

And yes, it is quite relevant when you tell people that "God will allow you into the pearly gates of Heaven" when such a thing may never happen.  If you truly revere God, is it not a form of blasphemy to put words into his mouth? God never stated such, and it's evil to put words into the mouth of God. 

No, I just showed that he did say it (if you believe the Bible is inspired).  To put it roughly,  Believing in God=Salvation, Believing in God=Righteousness, Therefore Salvation=Righteousness, as per the above verses.  And, again, it isn't blasphemous to do what He says to do.  And I'm certainly not putting words into his mouth; my arguments are purely scriptural.

Hypothetically, if I told your mother that I was going to get her out of debt and move her from her cardboard box, and into a nice little house, and then never showed up... wouldn't that be wrong?

And as for your last point, with that train of thought, then you are saying that God was being dishonest when he said that angels didn't have freewill?  It takes freewill to make the choice to declare war on God.  Angels have never had this... so how could this have happened?  If God intended to give angels the freewill of rebelion, then he could have just as easily gave them to freewill to worship him by choice.. in which case there would have been no purpose for the creation of man.

The Bible never says angels are without free will, and in the example you presented I argued that Satan wasn't obeying him, just that God wouldn't let him do it if he tried.

Secondly, another point you are skipping is that God is unable to be in the presence of sin.  Heaven is "pure" and "perfect".  So if Satan really is a sinful rebel against God, then he is unable to enter Heaven and stand at the side of God to pass judgement on the man named Job.

I'm fairly sure there are no verses that say God can't be in the presence in the presence of evil; after all, he is (Biblically) omnipotent and omnipresent, so from that we can see He is quite capable and must be.

And if Satan really could go to war against God, he sure as heck could also make the choice to rebel against God again and strike down Job in defiance of the almighty.

Again, he couldn't have because God wasn't just commanding him.

The point is, Christianity's idea of righteousness is that the belief that a man/god died for you makes you perfect before God... and that's just not in line with what the Tanach (the "old" Testament) says about righteousness. 

I agree; I wasn't saying good works save a person, but what I was saying is that you (should) sin either less or not at all when you become a Christian, according to Paul.

And don't get me started on the sacrifice thing, because that's another issue all together.  God doesn't accept the sacrifice of human beings as attonement for sin anyway... and furthermore, the Torah is quite specific that human sacrifice is an abomination to God as well.  And for be it from God to tell us something is evil, only to turn around and do the same thing himself.  If God is not without blemish, then he's not God at all.

That's more referring to someone sacrificing someone else.  In Jesus's case, it was either he sacrificing himself, or God telling him to, which is kinda the same thing anyways.  As it says somewhere in the NT "Greater Love has no one than this; when a man lay down his life for a friend".  Here, ther is no problem with human sacrifice, as it is self.

So it's safe to assume that if you truly believe that God is perfect, then we can know that he is no hypocritical tyrant that tells us not to do something that he himself would do.