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mrstickball on 16 December 2008
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Torillian said:
mrstickball said:
Torillian said:
Aiming does not equal shooting. That's like saying that because you can pick where you hit in real time in Disgaea that it is an Action RPG.

I can't answer your specific question because I haven't played Ogre Battle in a long time, and don't know enough about TLR to make a judgment on the similarities, but I'll talk to someone who has and get back to you.

Then he'll tell you the same thing I found out. The Last Remnant is very much like a Strategy RPG.

You deal with a lot of SRPG issues:

  • Large numbers of party members (up to 25)
  • Large numbers of enemy members (100+ in some battles)
  • Heavy emphasis on strategic combat, longer battles (some 'regular' battles can be 10-15 minutes...Bosses are up to an hour)
  • Heavily deals in class changes/unit types on a very broad base (like most SRPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle, or others)
  • *Actual* party formations ala Ogre Battle (and not the 2-tiered system every SE RPG has been)
  • Hundreds of recruitable soldiers/leaders

..And so on. TLR is definately an SRPG. The traveling is akin to a standard JRPG, but that's about it.

You don't actually have large numbers of characters though, because all you do is control groups.  This also is the reason for the number of enemies.  Since every enemy you would normally fight is divided into five it's not actually that much strategy.  Longer battles is meaningless, any JRPG can have excessively long battles (I just got through a 40 minute boss in Persona 4, doesn't mean it's an SPRG).

Class changes and unit types are also prevalent in FF X-2 y'know.

Party formations and tons of recruitable people, If I remember correctly Suikoden had both of those.

What matters is that the one thing that has always set SRPG's apart is the incorporation of movement into the battle system in one way or another.  Since TLR does not have this, it is not an SRPG, and is again more akin to Persona like turn based RPG with a buttload of characters on screen (while controlling them in groups of 5 so that it really comes down to every character your average turn based JRPG being divided into 5)

You do have a large number of characters. Each union (which has up to 5 for control) is formed with various types of units and leaders - swordsmen, herbalists, alchemists, mages, ect. You control groups, but you also choose what attacks they use via very high-level system based on Action Points - some units may use huge attacks that can damage 1 or multiple units inside a union, or even go with Area-Effect magics that can deal damage to multiple parties if they're in range, or within a line or window.

I wasn't arguing that class changes are exclusive to SRPGs. After all, Final Fantasy 2 had them...But they are a staple of the genre.

And the battles do have movement in them (you wouldn't know this if you hadn't played it). In each battle, union are placed on a big isometric field, in various places. Each union has a speed value to show if they can run quickly, and engage into a deadlock fast, or not...It plays heavily into strategy, because if your units are fast, they can intercept enemy unions, and engage them with massive bonuses.

Movement/Range also heavily affects (as mentioned) area attacks, and bombardment. You can have specific unions attack from long distances, and not engage an enemy party, if you want....And again, some of the said attacks (such as a Hex attack) can deal damage to 1, or up to 5 enemy units at a time.

Look at the picture, and notice where the unions are...It plays into the game heavily..If enemies are too far away (such as renforcing unions) they may have to march a turn or two to close in on allied unions (or vice-versa):

...Of course, this is if you want to argue that you must have hex or isometric grids for movement. In that case, VC would be excluded, to my knowledge (since it's non-linear).



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.