WSJ: Democracy loses if Prop. 8 is overturned.

[The Ghost of RubangB]

Grey Acumen said:

Gnizmo said:

Grey Acumen said:
Marriage to me is religious. If you want to give homosexual couples a civil union that grants all the legal rights and privileges of a marriage, then that's okay with me, but it is not a marriage unless it uses the religious ceremony, and making the distinction is important to maintaining the separation of church and state

 The opprtunity to keep marriage as a strictly religious idea went out the window many many years ago. You can elope and by-pass any possible religious ceremony but still end up being married. The concept is a legal one as well as a religious one in the United States. That means there should be no law discriminating against minorities that choose to marry different people. If you want to re-word the laws that specifiy marriage then go for it, but that seems like an up-hill battle to me.

I suppose I should say that it's not marriage unless it's approved by a religious institute, though of course I just shortened that to the religious ceremony, since that's the most typical manner in which that approval is given.

And uphill or not, it's a battle that is going to be, and it's the safest way to do it. The way you seem to be going is "since they gave an inch, we should just take a mile" and that just isn't going to fly.

The Ghost of RubangB said:

But what about the gay Christian churches that perform gay Christian weddings for gay Christians?  Not all gays have to be atheists.  And the law doesn't force any religious person to do anything or perform anything or recognize anything at all.  It can't, and it won't.  Gay people can go to a gay church or to a court or do it themselves in their back yard.

What about me, I'm an atheist?  Do I need to get a civil union because G-d hates me too?

A) Like I said, legitimate, calling themselves gay christians is going to be pretty rough. If they want to form a breakoff sect then I guess that's okay, but there is going to be backlash from standard christians. I think this would stand a better chance at gaining acceptance if they didn't try to throw around the "christian" term.

B) Honestly, yes, if you are an aethiest, I can hardly see how you should expect a religious ceremony, or why you would even want one. Isn't the point that you don't believe in god? Taking part in a ceremony in which you ask for God's approval and blessing, when you don't believe in god is a farce.

C) God doesn't hate you cause you're an aethiest, but how can you ask god for a favor when you don't believe he exists? I'm gonna go to my nonexistent uncle and ask him to lend me $50?

 

A) Legitimate gay Christian churches are everywhere, and spreading: http://www.gaychurch.org/

B) Not all weddings are religious ceremonies.  They were ways to trade ownership of land, property, and women for thousands of years.  Religious weddings are only one kind of wedding.  Marriages can also be political tools.

C) I don't ask G-d for favors.  Getting married is a social and legal institution just as much as a religious one.