vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
chapset said:
Personally I don't really believe in the god they talk about in the bible, it's too human made, but i do believe something else must be the reason why everything is so perfect, every little thing on earth and in the universe has a purpose, an utility. So it made me wonder what is beyond all this? sometimes i just say to my self: this is crazy talk, things are the way they are for no good reason it's just like that. And since gamers are the smartest being on earth and have a lot of time to waist maybe you guys and girls (not likely) could help me clear this.
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That's basically called "Deism".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Old Honest Abe Lincoln was a Deist.
Benjamin Franklin too i believe.
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Deism only came about back in the day (several centuries ago) so that scientific and political leaders could say they don't believe in god without them commiting social suicide.
The church would have ridiculued ANY scientist back then if he didn't admit to god, and hoenstly, would Lincoln have been even considered if he outright said he didn't believe in god? Same thing with Franklin, most people would have thorown him in the "godless damned" pile and not listened to any reason.
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Really?
Because from my research it looked like Deism was created because of the pointless struggles between different religions in an attempt to get them to all agree on the main points they had... basically the guy hated the church and wanted something better... i forget his name. Some british lord.
Ah it's in the Wikipedia Edward Herbert Cherbury...
still looks similar to that after all the reforms and such. So i'm going to say you have a bit of a misconception there.
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Oh I agree that Deism covers the very general points of most religions, pure theism at its best. That does not remove the fact that it is being used and probably its strongest perprotrators only used it so that they wouldn't be completely discreditted by every single church in existance, especially when the church had so much power back in the day. Deism is a cop-out reiligion for people that want to be believed and not discreditted (or to not get diowned by yourparents) and it has always made me sad to know people had to go to such extents to be heard.
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Where is your proof on that one? Seems like a big stretch.
If anything i'd say there was very little reason to be an atheist around the time Deism started... as things like evolution weren't even widely understood or exlained so there was no good reason for where humans came from.
Heck, there wasn't even a good arguement out there against the metaphysical when Deism was created.... not even a "backdoor" one.
There was little to no reason for anyone to be an atheist at that time... it made more sense to believe got just hated you or was testing you or something.
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It wasn't atheism, it was going against what had been put forward by the current church. Earth is flat, everything rotates around Eart, and other such claims came in direct contrast with what the church was teaching. Many great minds were imprisoned or killed, Copernicus was saved because they couldn't read his notes and Galileo was almost killed had his patron not been around and had he not conceded some points to the Pope. Now these two, from what I've read, were Christians, fulling supporting Jesus.
Now imagine what starts to happen as more and more thing start encroaching upon the church's teachings (Newton), and what happens when the same great minds start wondering about whether there was a god at all or not. Back then the churches weren't as thirsty for blood, but they were powerful enough to completely discredit anyone. Scientists and philosophers needed a way to be heard and not to be labeled as godless abominations, so they took up Deism.
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That doesn't actually seem to be the truth of the matter based on the facts though. Just seems like your making a wild conspiracy theory type rationalization based opon your own beliefs.
Deism was particularly a target for churches actually.
Anyone who called themself a deist was taking a great risk to do so.
