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makingmusic476 on 07 November 2008
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ZenfoldorVGI said:
makingmusic476 said:
Badassbab said:

I think it's only PS3 fanboys who think there is no RTS market for consoles. I take it that's why EA released LOTR BFME2, C&C 3 + Kanes Wrath as well as the upcoming Red Alert 3 on the 360.

Then there is Universe at War, Supreme Commander, Warhammer, Endwar and the up and coming Stormrise which is looking promising. RTS is a growing market on consoles and with the huge Xbox Live audience, developers know they have a large audience that would love to get to grips with this genre of gaming.

 

I have never really enjoyed a console RTS, and as an avid fan of the Strategy genre, I can safely say that most console RTS titles are gimped compared to their PC counterparts (especially so in some cases, like that of Supreme Commander).

Those buying RTS on the 360 are casual RTS players at best, and there's a reason why no RTS has yet broken the 520k mark on the console (though Halo Wars surely will).

I suggest you play a game on PS2 called GrimGrimoire, from the makers of Odin Sphere. It manages to naiil the controls, but its gameflow is designed more like Disgaea than Warcraft III.

Again, the RTS genre, I kinda hate. Real time is just frusterating in a strategy game, especially when said game has no real "good" controlling solutions even at this late date in the history of gaming. The scale of the action would never allow for a human opponent to control an army as efficiently as a well written AI program could. Kinda like playing chess with a 3 minute time limit.

The reason is obvious. The only good control method for a RTS is via a strategical mini-map, moving large numbers of units at once. However, the quandry lies in the fact that instead of actually playing the RTS, you'd be playing the mini-map..which reviewers and gamers would hate.

GrimGrimoire is about as good a RTS on a console that there has ever been. It manages to deliver a fantastic ahd humerous narrative, as well.

The DS also has a decent, but not spectacular RTS lite called Reverant Wings, that I had the misfortune of purchasing, thinking the genre might appeal to me in my later years.

Anyway, yes, it's incorrect to assume all stategy games on a console are "casual." Inferior controls, perhaps. There are quite a few games that feature a ton of depth.

I didn't say that the games are casual, but that those buying the games have a more casual attitude towards the genre. Any serious RTS'er is going to have a nice PC so they can get their RTS fix. 

I'm not using the word "casual" in the stupid "OMG casual gamerz" sense, but rather I'm using the actual definition of the word.

And as you said, you generally hate RTS (except for WCIII, which is very RPG heavy for an RTS - one of the reasons I dislike the game).  For guys like me, mouse and keyboard are fine tools to own some AI.  And then there's the multiplayer.  This is the only genre in which I readily abandon the singleplayer experience and jump right online.  Everything else, it's singleplayer first, and often singleplayer only.  But anywho, my point is that a console controller is extremely limiting for an RTS compared to KB/mouse, and I find using one to be quite cumbersome, if not outright frustrating.

Btw, as far as "playing the mini map" goes, have you heard of Supreme Commander?  It's in my top three favorite RTS, and a large portion of the game is exactly what you describe, given it's unique scrolling feature, allowing you to zoom all the way out from a 3d map to a 2d "mini map" in real time.

You can see what I'm talking about around the 57 second mark of this video: