Obama not a US citizen

[Aiemond]

Stockstar1138 said:

whatever said:

kazadoom said:

Did you listen to the interview? This is a democrat, not some republican. You can live with your head in the sand if you want. My guess is you did not even listen to it. Obama has not even answered the Lawsuit, nor has he given any proof showing that he in fact is a US citizen. Are you saying that this is as desperate as running multiple day coverage on how much Sarah Palin's clothes cost?

I'm saying it is completely FALSE and has been covered many times already. Apparently you've had your head in the sand.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html

 

ive been following this case for about 2 months now and am pretty knowledgable on the subject.

this is not a ridiculous case. if it was it would have been tossed out by now, this judge was appointed by a democratic president and the prosecuter, berg, is a democrat.

in regards to that supposed birth certificate, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBgkDSw-wQ0, makes some very intresting points. factcheck is owned by annenberg, which has close ties with obama, may we say its not the most bi-partisan site out there.

if this is so ridiculous, answer these questions.

why won't obama simply produce the vault birth cerficate. if somebody filed a case against you possibly ruining your career, wouldn't you produce the copy and say, here it is, case over. instead obama has tried to use delay tactics? strange.

why did obama travel to pakistan in 1981 under an indonesian passport? indonesia did not allow obama to hold dual us citizenship back in 81, so the only way he could have gotten an indoesian passport, is if he DID NOT have US citizenship. also pakistan was a no travel zone for us citizens in 81 and pakistan was not allowing us citizen to enter the country either.

and if that BC on annenberg is a fake, which it does appear to be so. wtf are you doing forging US birth certificates.

this is real case, though completely unbelivable how this could have happened if everything is true regarding the alligation. this will be massive.

Time to handle the misinformation. Just because you make an argument does not mean it has any factual base. In this case, Berg has made an argument that has no factual base. Not only that, the "Indonesian" stuff is not accurate. Lets take a real look at this:

1) Obama's mother is a US citizen. A child of one US citizine parent on foreign soil is a US citizen. Even if he was born in Kenya, he is a citizen.

2) Where is the Kenyan birth certificate? If Berg was so sure of his proff, why not show it off. That would get the media on the story faster. Plus, he is a PUMA clinton supporter, thats why he is so pissed.

3) Berg, or any citizen, HAS NO STANDING to bring this up in court. The precident was already set.

"Two United States District Courts have ruled that private citizens do not have standing to challenge the eligibility of candidates to appear on a presidential election ballot. Robinson v. Bowen, 567 F. Supp. 2d 1144 (N.D. Cal. 2008); Hollander v. McCain, 2008WL2853250 (D.N.H. 2008). In dicta in each of these cases, it was also opined that if the plaintiffs did have standing, the likelihood of success on the merits (which is part of the legal test for the issuance of a preliminary injunction) would be low. The opinion in one of the cases also cited to a statutory method^[16] by which the eligibility of the President-elect to take office may be challenged in Congress."

4) On Indonesia, him being a citizen there does not cancel his US citizenship. Getting rid of your citizenship is a difficult process that has a definitive paper trail. If this was true, Berg or someone else could have gotten access to this paper trail.

from: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

"

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, "claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States." See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1483), and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action. If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact:"

 

Ok, now we have seen that to get rid of his citizenship he has to not only have a good reason, but he HIMSELF has to convince an embassy employee of his wish to renounce citizenship, his parents cannot do it for him. Then, there has to be signatures. A minor can do this, but I find it a very difficult case that would allow for a minor of his age to make the case because he would not be able to prove he has full understanding and undue influence (from parents). Lastly, he is not a citizen at all if he ever renounced, and thus could not even have a SS number. You do realize that people undergo background checks for public office, this would have come up. He would have had to use his BC before in many different documents. So, this is another wingnut wako trying to BS his way to 15 min of fame.