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Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:

But we did kill civilians whether or not it was intentional.  Even if it wasn't intentional, is that any better than taking away people's property/invading their homes?  War creates too many unpredictable contingencies, and is an ineffective way to build lasting relationships between people and cultures.

I agree that Osama bin Laden is cooky and an opportunist, but Osama bin Laden could not have existed without regular people who were convinced by his words based on their own life experiences.  These people are the ones who give people like Osama bin Laden power because they are frustrated with the interventionism of Western culture.

 

We killed civilians in Saudi Arabia after the war?

Or do you mean that people died during the war... in Iraq?

Either way... does that mean we can't ever intervene to help our allies?

 

Either one, before or after the war.  Death is death, and people are affected by it whenever it happens, in war or outside of war.

No, helping out allies is important, but too often we take a hostile attitude towards people who don't treat us as liberators when we bring troops into their country, invited or not.  I am saying we should learn from our own history.

Many of the Founding Fathers were terrorists.  Boston Tea Party, an act of terrorism.  They were radicals and extremists.  Yet those people are our heroes. 

America today is incredibly similar to Britain then.  We have a hard time taking a step back and looking at our actions from both sides of the table.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson