One reason I hate living in the south.

[whatever]

makingmusic476 said:

TheRealMafoo said:

konnichiwa said:

TheRealMafoo said:

Well, to be honest, he is more right then wrong. When the colonies created the US, and became states, they did so with an expectation of what there state rights would be. Those rules radically changed, and changed in a way where it negatively impacted the southern states. It got to a point where they said "thanks, but no thanks. Good luck with that US thing, we are going to go another way". Left the group, and started there own country. The US said "sorry, but we need you, so no" and invaded them.

Think of it like if you joined a club where you had to pay $1000 in dues, and after a few years the club moves in a direction you don't like. You then resign from the club, but the owner (who likes your $1000) beats the shit out of you, and says you can't leave, and must pay the grand each year.

That sums up the war. It was a state rights thing, and had nothing to do with slavery (if anyone thinks it did).

Well I always thought that was the main reason or better said was the one of biggest reasons.  I know a lot of the Civil war (the most famous persons/generals, the fights that happened like Bull Run) but never really what it caused it.

Ugh sucks though, the only family that ever went to USA of me had to fight in the civil war (or that is what they told us when we asked it) and died in one of the fights.  Ugh I always saw him as some kind of hero.

And lol a lot of Americans who live here have this flag on their car/in their house:

 I always thought they did that because they are racist =p...Wups..

 

Well, a lot of people today think of race when they think of the civil war (both black and white). So I would not rule out racism when you see that flag (I would not automatically think it either).

I agree with States Rights, but I would never fly that flag. It pisses off to many people.

Oh, and Slavery was legal even after the war was over. It was not abolished until the 14th amendment was ratified on July 9, 1868. The Civil War ended April 9, 1865.

If you want to know more about why the war started, Wikipedia has some good info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

As you can see in that article, slavery was a focal point that stimulated the argument, but it was not the underlying issue. The underlying issue what the states felt they had the right to say if slavery would be legal, not the federal government (like it still is today with murder, that's a state crime, not a federal one). Ironically, Lincoln never planed to outlaw slavery in states that already had it, he only wanted to outlaw it from any territory that wanted to become a new state.

But after the south was defeated, the north put there people into the political offices of the southern states, and it allowed the 14th amendment to pass. So the war ended slavery faster then if it had not happened.

Oh, also slavery and racism were two different things back then. In the south, before the war, there were 150,000 free black men. Of the free black men in New Orleans (the only location where they kept statistics on black slave owners), 90% of the free black men owned slaves. About 1% of white men in the south owned slaves. It's very hard to try and put what slavery meant to the people of that time into our value system.

A good example, would be if one day we let 15 year old's hold public office, and live free. If we did, in 200 years we would be ashamed at how we treat 15-18 year old's today. You can't buy property, live on your own, vote, and so on. We don't think of this as degrading to our youth, it's just the way it is. It was kind of the same mindset back then.

I am torn, as I feel slavery should have been a states rights issue, but I am also very happy about the 14th amendment (and the civil rights movement if the 1960's). In a perfect world, each state would have outlawed slavery on there own, and over 700,000 Americans wouldn't of had to die.

Really, it was about 5% of Southern white men that owned slaves.

As for the Wikipedia article, it puts puts far too much emphasis on slaveryas a cause of the war (as most American souces do).  Slavery was one of many issues in the war, and animosity between the North and South due to other issues (taxes, tarrifs, etc.) often manifested itself through the North/South's efforts to expand the number of Free/Slave states, thus expanding each's political power in Congress.

The real issues of the Civil War (though a more fitting name would be the War Between the States, or the War of Northern Aggression) involved tariffs, the wider economy, and states rights (like the right of nullifaction, for example when South Carolina attempted to nullify the tariff of 1828, aka the Tariff of Abominations - and after the war started, the right of Secession). 

In the early 1800s, the South was really getting screwed by the North as far as the economy was concerned.  Southern farmers were the source of a vast majority of Federal income, yet the far more populous North always decided where the money went.  Things were only made worse through Northern efforts to increase import tariffs, in an attempt to make Southern farmers buy their goods from Northern manufacturers, rather than importing cheaper goods from Europe, where the Industrial Revolution had grown strong.

Tension over tariffs first came to a head through the Tariff of 1828, a tariff that raised taxes on imports to unprecedented levels, and was thus labeled the "Tariff of Abominations".  The South, particularly South Carolina, got pissed, and there were even talks of nullifying the tariff, or declaring the tariff to be null & void.  However, they didn't end up doing this, remaining optimistic that the tariff would be lowered by 1832.  The tariff of 1832, however, didn't lower the tariff near enough, so SC, under the direction of John C. Calhoun, decided to go ahead and nullify the Tariff.  They even called up the state militia to keep the Feds from collecting dues from the Tariff.  Of course, Jackson brought up the army, and SC backed down.

They did not back down in 1860, however.

When the Morill tariff (the highest tariff since the infamous Tariff of Abominations) was going through Congress in 1860, and Lincoln vowed to sign said tariff into law should he become President, the Deep South states of South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and Texas said, "Enough!  We're out of here."  The Morrill Tariff raised import taxes to around 48% by 1868. While, not as high as the Tariff of Abomination's ~60%, it was MUCH higher than the ~20% that had become the norm during the 1850s.

It was only after Lincoln send 75,000 militia to "take back" these states that the upper South States seceded.  Virginia, North Carolina, etc. weren't to fond of what the North was doing at first, but it wasn't enough to make them leave the Union.  Once they saw that the federal government under Lincoln wouldn't even let States SECEDE, they were like, "Oh hell no!"  The rights of the State had been threatened enough.

And that's a rough summation of the beginning of the War Between the States.  Of course, American history books will always make their best efforts to demonize the South and glorify ol' Abe.  As they say, the winners write the history books.  I hear we get more of a fair shake in Europe, though.

Edit: OMG, the wikipedia article on the Tariff of Abominations is so biased.  This line in particular made me LOL: 

"When the Jackson administration failed to address its concerns, the most radical faction in South Carolina began to advocate that the state itself declare the tariff null and void within South Carolina." 

I wouldn't consider John C. Calhoun and those that elected him to be some fringe group of radicals.  And the article completely ignores SC calling up the militia.  It completely downplays the gravity of the situation.

 

Please see my above posts.  Like it or not, slavery was the main point of contention between the states.  There were other issues, but slavery was front and center.  Its seems like its the south that is trying to re-write history to make it look like they were on the "right" side.