To all believers on this site...

[appolose]

ManusJustus said:

appolose said:

I'm not saying that such a being does exist, I'm saying that if such a bieng existed he would be, by definition, outside of time, because time is physcial, and the being is not.  It's not an assumption.  If it's not physical then physcial attributes cannot be applied.  That being said, he (in the argument) exists apart from the universe, and there is no time to measure for him.

You cannot ascribe past and future to the function in such a manner, because that point is just a point on the graph, not a measurement of how far it's gone along the graph.  Also, there is a difference between having an infinite future and past.  For the future, you haven't gone on forever, whereas in the past, you have, which is impossible.

To make things short, you've created another realm where logic, physical laws, etc. of this realm do not apply to that realm.  One cant argue against that since you can apply whatever characteristics you want to that realm.  The real question is did the realm create you or did you create the realm (or someone told you about it), for me it is clear.

The equation showed that there can be an infinite past.  If you went back in time 50 billion years (before the Big Bang) you could still go on for infinity.  Here, you are making the assumption that the universe has a start.

No, logic always applies to anything, and we were discussing whether or not it was logical to say "A was created by B, and B by nothing".  We are merely discussing the logic of the statement, not necessarily that the statement coincides with reality.

I would argue that the equation merely demonstrated infinite positions.  For it to apply to our discussion the point would have had to have traveled across an infinite distance to reach, for example, x equals 1.  I'm not implying either that the universe had a beginning, existed for an eternity, and is now where it is in time today, I'm saying that by implication, an infinite past is an infinite past endured (which is impossible).