To all believers on this site...

[appolose]

ManusJustus said:

appolose said:

There wasn't a time before the creation of the physcial, because time is a purely physcial concept.  One cannot ask what he was doing before creation because it's nonsensical to ask of a before.  That's not saying God came into existence the moment he created, it's just saying that time does not apply.

What I mean by it being able to have an infinite future is that we could wait 50 quadrillion years and it would still exist.  However, we could never wait an infinite amount of years (counting to infinity), which is what is implied by the oscillating universe idea.  No matter how long you wait, you'll never come to a point in time where there is an infinite amount of time behind you.

Just becaue you say it is nonsensical doesn't make it so.  You are making assumptions that a spiritual realm exists as well as assumptions of characteristics of that spiritual realm, anyone could do the same thing and make any argument they wish.  Did God exist before the creation of the universe?  Yes, then God is eternal.  No, then God was created.

You can wait an infinite amount of years, otherwise time would have a stopping point.  If you go 50 quadrillion years into the future you would still have an infinite amount of time ahead of you.

Consider the equation y = x where x is a function of time.  There is an infinite negative value (past) and an infinite positive value (future).  If I am at x = 1 and I would have an infinite negative value (past) and infinite positive value (future) in either direction.

 

 I'm not saying that such a being does exist, I'm saying that if such a bieng existed he would be, by definition, outside of time, because time is physcial, and the being is not.  It's not an assumption.  If it's not physical then physcial attributes cannot be applied.  That being said, he (in the argument) exists apart from the universe, and there is no time to measure for him.

You cannot ascribe past and future to the function in such a manner, because that point is just a point on the graph, not a measurement of how far it's gone along the graph.  Also, there is a difference between having an infinite future and past.  For the future, you haven't gone on forever, whereas in the past, you have, which is impossible.