To all believers on this site...

[appolose]

ManusJustus said:

appolose said: 

If there were such a need for the universe to have a nonphyscial creator, it does not necessarily follow that the nonphyscial creator would need a creator.

And it is quite a step to say that all are wholly human made.  Who's to say that such myths didn't have a real, particular source for themselves?

You are applying a non-physical trait to something that you are not sure exists or doesn't exist or if it has a non-physical trait or not.  You can apply a non-physical trait to anything and make any argument you wish.

I believe in Leprachuans, Leprachuans are nonphysical, therefore Leprachuans exist.

Humans exagerrate on stories.  Even in American lore we have figures like Paul Bunyon and John Henry, they may be based off of real people, but their supernatural traits are man made.

The point is not whether or not it exists, but rather if it is logical to say "Object A needed to be created to by Object B, and Object  B needs no creator", which it is.  If there were such a nonphysical being, the alleged need of the universe to have a creator would not apply to such an entity, which, by definition, is nonphyscial.  Notice I am not saying that such a being must exist because of this,  but simply that if it did, we could not say it needed a creator, too.