hunter_alien said:
Kasz216 said:
hunter_alien said:
Kasz216 said:
hunter_alien said:
Kasz216 said:
hunter_alien said:
Sri Lumpa said:
So hunter, if Russia gets away with invading Georgia like you want them to will you be the first to welcome your new (old) Russians overlord when they come invading Romania in a few years time?
Either you would oppose such an invasion in which case you are hypocritical here or you would in which case you would be a traitor to your country.
I would agree that more smaller countries are not a good thing but unification through conquest is so last millenium.
Plus, Georgia's plan was to get into NATO and then vie for EU membership so it is not like they would stay a small country anyway (but that plan certainly is why Russia wants it back before it happens); you just would have a big metacountry with smaller member states, like the US but with a stronger emphasis and identity of the members of the union.
As for you saying that it would be a bad thing to have south ossetia being independent it is a strawman as nobody here said they thought it should happen, everybody but you says it should be a part of Georgia like it traditionally was, with you saying it should be part of Russia (which is like saying that Russia should benefit from the crimes of the USSR).
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Yes, I would probably open my arms to the Russian troops. There is no need for patriotic acts when there is no chance to win. Russia will never attack states that are already meber of the EU, and I think we all know this, they just want to prevent more teritories to get into the EU or NATO.
Oh and about the crimes of the USSR... there are people who think they where crimes and then there are others like me... no comments about this statement because if I would tell all my bealives you wouldent want to be in my friend list anymore :P
Kasz: no country is perfect but then some countryes ( like Georgia ) are in such a big mess that they cant resolve their issues on their own, without outside help...
( Man this is one insomniac night for me... il be so wasted tomorrow :P ).
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It seems like Russia can't handle it's own problems either diplomatically.
Considering the recent reports have russia killing, looting and burning georgian villages to the ground... i would say that Russia's "help" isn't exactly what the country needs.
They're helping georgia much how the mongols "helped" the Ossetians move in the first place.
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You cant allways treat people with glowed hands... the Russian way is brutal but efficiant. There will always be casualties we will have to deal with that.
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Burning villages, looting and murdering people while observing a cease fire is acceptable to you?
We really do have disagreements, though that was obvious by the fact that you don't seem to think the USSR did anything wrong... like execute people for no reason, send people off to work camps for things like accdently writing on a leaders head on a newspaper or the intentional starvation of the Ukraine.
You really have quite a twisted sense of what "needs to be done."
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Bealive me the first part was massivly overstated by the Georgian Government...
And no I dont bealive that the USSR had no crimes, just that many of the so called "crimes" where much smaller or inexistant, and where fabricated by the USA. Do you think that there was propaganda only in the communist world?
Sometimes measures have to be taken. Sometimes its enough to make a small political chit-chat, sometimes a partial genocide is needed. Thats where I stand, and I dont care if you dont like it, because you dont have to. Maybe you are better with the slow-moving, democratic solutions... and often thats enough, but there are times when a nation has to forget human rights and has to act.
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You know. Holocaust deniers make the same arguement. Some say the Holocaust happened but the numbers were greatly exagerrated by the west.
If you actually read the research on it the numbers estimated actually seem like underestimates.
If everything is overestimated why are people panicly fleeing from Gori? Why are there multiple eye witness accounts of these actions occuring.
You are just blind to the facts because you want to be.
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I bealive that the Holocaust was one of the most sensless actions oin the history of humanity. But even my history teacher agrees ( he usually disagrees with me all the time just like you ) that those numbers where highly overestimated, and instead of the 5-7 million dead jews there where probably ~ 2-3, in worst case 4. The fact is that in Europe there wherent more then 6 million Jews back in 1940 and almost half of them managed to escape, and even those who where deported where not all killed... so yeah.
Why are people fleeing from Gori, you ask? Easy: group hysteria. Whenever somebody hears a gunshot he starts yelling that he saw an army, so just because people are scared it doesnt means that they have a reason...
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You do know where that 6 million number comes from right? One of the highest ranking SS men himself. They are confirmed by german records of the time.
Meanwhile, like I said, the numbers of those dead are drawn directly from soviet records, which if you take at face value are bad. Let alone the likelyhood of many deaths left of the records.
There were 8 to 10 million jews just in the areas controlled by the Nazis during this time period. Your numbers are off.
Why would these countries lie and say their crimes were worse then they were?
